View Poll Results: Are we an Arrogant country?

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  • Yes

    70 66.04%
  • No

    36 33.96%
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Thread: Are we an arrogant country?

  1. #201
    Androgyne
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Let me preface this by pointing out I'm hardly a big TD fan in regards to many of the ways he presents his stances, that said.

    How is mimicing something mocking it? The video is even there because Limbaugh provides a webcam feed for subscribers to his site to be able to see his broadcast. If he said someone was waving as they left on a boat, and he mimiced waving, would he be "mocking" them? Because your original argument was that he was mocking Fox.
    Oh come on! If it was simply mimicking then it was extremely exaggerated which I would categorize under mocking. I could totally see Rush's point if he would have attacked the message rather than the messenger. It was a lowest common denominator attack which I felt was aimed at mocking Michael J. Fox rather than addressing the issues that he took with the message itself.

    As far as the video you posted, I'm at work so can't view it. However I'd be interested to know if it was the one that was spread around on the broadcast networks that was purposefully sped up to increase the speed and then looped to make it appear to go on longer then it did.
    The one I saw didn't appear sped up at all.
    Which again, mimicking does not equal mocking.
    I agree. However, I wouldn't categorize what he did as mere mimicking.

    Now, I don't agree TD with you trying to play on emotional hysterics. HOWEVER, I actaully DO agree with Rush. I've watched Fox on Boston Legal numerous times and on the previews for Rescue Me. He is no where NEAR as fidgety and shaky as he was in the video.
    They probably don't film him for tv shows while he is fidgety and shaky. It's a result of the medication and Rush made the claim that he was under-medicated and did so on purpose. I just think that's absurd to assume that he would put on a show of being fidgety just for the purpose of garnering sympathy. I've seen him in plenty of interviews where he is just as or even more shaky.

    So my question to you, would be WHY would he purposefully take lengths not to be that way when on television shows, but was doing it while in his commercial? Its obvious that he COULD'VE been FAR more composed in his commercial than he was, but he wasn't. Why was that?
    The condition worsens over time. You mentioned earlier that you never saw him that way on Boston Legal, but if I recall correctly he did the commercial some time after he ended his stint with Boston Legal. Since the interview I really haven't seen him where he isn't fidgety like that.

    My guess would be, trying to view it from his side, he wanted to the most raw look into parkinsons that he could provide in the commercial, and thus didn't want to take steps to make himself seem "better" than he really was. And you know what, I don't blame him for that. But to say that the reason you'd want to do that is for any reason OTHER than to hope that it still strike an emotional cord with people is simply dishonest in my opinion. The REASON you'd want to show it at its worst for him is specifically so people feel more emotionally disgusted at not helping such a horrible illness than if he just seemed like a perfectly fine person up there talking on the screen.
    Well, regardless I think it's silly to just assume that's what he was doing. Obviously Rush needed to do more research on Parkinson's because he thought that he was under-medicated which makes no sense.

    Which is exactly the point Rush was trying to make; albiet in his normal verbose, over the top, rather idiotic way.
    Which I read as mockery. Maybe I'm wrong because I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh all the time and I'm not aware of his nuances. Regardless, he is obviously quite ignorant on the subject of Parkinson's Disease.

  2. #202
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Which I read as mockery. Maybe I'm wrong because I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh all the time and I'm not aware of his nuances. Regardless, he is obviously quite ignorant on the subject of Parkinson's Disease.
    You are wrong which was the point I attempted to make; and as for your claim that Rush is obviously ignorant on the subject of Parkinson's disease; yes he probably is as are perhaps 90% of the population myself included.

    Perhaps you are letting your perceptions and knowledge of the disease bias your claims regarding Rushís intention?

  3. #203
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    I think we are. I know I am when it comes to the US. I hate to admit it but I get caught up in the nationalism at times. So yes I think we are at heart.


    No Lives Matter

  4. #204
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Oh come on! If it was simply mimicking then it was extremely exaggerated which I would categorize under mocking. I could totally see Rush's point if he would have attacked the message rather than the messenger. It was a lowest common denominator attack which I felt was aimed at mocking Michael J. Fox rather than addressing the issues that he took with the message itself.
    You can't literally sit here on this forum and tell me attacking the messanger, in regards to their motivations for how they're framing the debate, isn't a legitimate tactic. Evereyone uses it.

    Lets say Obama suddenly invaded Darfur because there were reports a terrorist cell of Al-Qaeda had started up there that became well funded and was where Bin Laden had relocated. After invading it was found out that wasn't the case and that Obama administration likely new it. TD then goes on a fit, complaining that Obama lied so he and his administration could just go in and do what they were planning on doing all along. He's a war criminal, he's horrible, he needs to be removed from President.

    Are you telling me, seriously, you'd look at that and ONLY debate the message? You wouldn't look at the poster, and his motives, and question that in the context of the topic? That you wouldn't say "TD, how in the world is this any different than with Bush and Iraq and WMD's. How can you justify being upset about this when you defended bush"?

    I doubt it, because people do it constantly on this forum.

    How is going "Alright Michael J. Fox, I dislike your stance here, but are you trying to tell me you're not purposefully allowing yourself to go on camera showing the worst affects of your illness in hopes of illiciting an emotional response instead of going on there like you do with other TV appearances you've been on, with it under control, so people can base their choice on this on the FACTS of the case rather than an emotional reaction to your unfortunante state" ANY DIFFERENT?

    The only possible difference is that, frankly, Rush did it in a far more ass like fashion. I'm not going to sit here and say that Rush wasn't an ass. Rush is an ass. He's routinely an ass. But that doesn't mean he was MOCKING him or was "attacking the messanger" in some way that was abhorent. He was complaining about a LEGITIMATE bit of dishonest attempt to manipulate the voting population, though doing so in an ass like manner.

    The one I saw didn't appear sped up at all.
    Could be the case. Like I said, I'd need to see it and can't at work.

    I agree. However, I wouldn't categorize what he did as mere mimicking.
    Perhaps he was a bit more over the top with it, perhaps he's not a trained actor and was doing his rendition of it, I don't know. I didn't see it as a "hur hur, look at me shake like a retard" type of thing that i'd think of when I hear the word "mocking". I didn't see him doing it with any kind of great malice against Fox or in an attempt to get people to ridicule Fox DUE to his disease or to laugh at him for shaking. That to me is mocking. From what I saw, he was mimicing it, albiet poorly.

    They probably don't film him for tv shows while he is fidgety and shaky. It's a result of the medication and Rush made the claim that he was under-medicated and did so on purpose. I just think that's absurd to assume that he would put on a show of being fidgety just for the purpose of garnering sympathy. I've seen him in plenty of interviews where he is just as or even more shaky.
    Honestly, i've not seen him in many interviews. The few I've seen him in are ones where he's talking about parkinsons and the ravages of it and advocating people trying to find ways to help it. Again, as I've said before, I don't blame him one bit for allowing the full scope of the effects he's experiencing due to the disease or the drugs needed to help the disease to be seen when he's making these claims. I would too. He's trying to stir up support, and it HELPS to appeal to emotions when you stir up support. Just don't get upset when people point out that you are doing things to try and stir up support.

    The fact is, he can appear on camera without that large of an amount of fidgeting. If all he wanted people to do was make a judgement based on the FACTS, he'd have appeared that way. He didn't. He choose to appear in such a way that would likely appeal to emotions along with appeal to peoples logic. I don't fault him for that, but I also don't think for a minute that wasn't part of it.

    I don't think he OVER exaggerated it purposefully, which Rush mused about but to my memory didn't specifically suggest was definitive fact.

    Well, regardless I think it's silly to just assume that's what he was doing. Obviously Rush needed to do more research on Parkinson's because he thought that he was under-medicated which makes no sense.

    Which I read as mockery. Maybe I'm wrong because I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh all the time and I'm not aware of his nuances. Regardless, he is obviously quite ignorant on the subject of Parkinson's Disease.
    No qualms with you here. Rush can be and often is an Ass and shoots his mouth off without a full understnading of what he's saying. That doesn't make his point any less right, even if the fact he blathered about during it were wrong.
    You down with TPP?

  5. #205
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I think we are. I know I am when it comes to the US. I hate to admit it but I get caught up in the nationalism at times. So yes I think we are at heart.
    Are you? Are we? Perhaps what is needed here is a dictionary definition:

    Main Entry: arrogance !ar-u-gun(t)s
    Pronunciation: \ ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə- \
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    Results
    14th century an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions


    I am not sure I would label you as being arrogant from what I have seen on the forum.

    I am not sure I can label America as being arrogant in context of global events.

    It would be easy placing someone like Castro or Hugo Chavez into that category, but US Presidents in modern history? I donít believe so.

  6. #206
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    The fact that people are failing to admit that the U.S. is arrogant ... is arrogance itself.



    Conservatives ...


  7. #207
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    The fact that people are failing to admit that the U.S. is arrogant ... is arrogance itself.

    Conservatives ...
    Then you obviously have a fantastically confused idea about the definition of arrogance.

    Perhaps it is because your goal here is just to put down Conservatives?

  8. #208
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    The fact that people are failing to admit that the U.S. is arrogant ... is arrogance itself.



    Conservatives ...
    Wow that is pretty much bull**** man. Quite a few people who would call themselves conservative said yes.

    zip your fly, your partisanship is hanging out.


    No Lives Matter

  9. #209
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Then you obviously have a fantastically confused idea about the definition of arrogance.

    Perhaps it is because your goal here is just to put down Conservatives?
    Maybe ...


  10. #210
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Are you? Are we? Perhaps what is needed here is a dictionary definition:

    Main Entry: arrogance !ar-u-gun(t)s
    Pronunciation: \ ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə- \
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    Results
    14th century an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions


    I am not sure I would label you as being arrogant from what I have seen on the forum.

    I am not sure I can label America as being arrogant in context of global events.

    It would be easy placing someone like Castro or Hugo Chavez into that category, but US Presidents in modern history? I donít believe so.
    We're the World Police. We feel it is our duty to monitor all of the world's activities. We feel that it is our place to tell countries that they are not allowed to create weapons. That is arrogance.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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