View Poll Results: Are we an Arrogant country?

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Thread: Are we an arrogant country?

  1. #121
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    A synopsis of abject nonsense, my favorite of course is the absurd notion that Nassar was a US ally, that one is a doozy. Perhaps a history lesson is in order so that you wonít continue making such outrageously absurd comments in a vacuum of facts and the truth:

    Gamal Abdel Nasser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Way to quote nothing of use. Here, I will educate you even though its obvious an old dog can't learn new tricks.

    -------------------------------------
    Post Nasser

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Egypt]Foreign relations of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    Relations with the United States

    After the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Egyptian foreign policy began to shift as a result of the change in Egypt's leadership from President Gamal Abdel-Nasser to Anwar Sadat and the emerging peace process between Egypt and Israel. Sadat realized that reaching a settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict is a precondition for Egyptian development. To achieve this goal, Sadat ventured to enhance US-Egyptian relations to foster a peace process with Israel.

    [edit] Military cooperation

    Between 1979 and 2003, the US has provided Egypt with about $19 billion in military aid, making Egypt the second largest non-NATO recipient of US military aid after Israel. Also, Egypt received about $30 billion in economic aid within the same time frame.

    Military cooperation between the US and Egypt is probably the strongest aspect of their strategic partnership.
    Us-Egyptian relations dropped precipitously after the Arab Israeli wars
    American orientalism: the United ... - Google Book Search

    The United States, Great Britain ... - Google Book Search


    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aswan_Dam]Aswan Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    Aswan Dam in International Perspective

    In 1955 Nasser was trying to portray himself as leader of Arab nationalism, in opposition to Hashemite Iraq, especially following the Baghdad pact of 1955. At this time the US was much more concerned with the possibility of communism spreading to the Middle East than protecting Israel, and saw Nasser as a natural leader of an anti-communist Arab league. And the USA and Britain offered to help finance construction with a loan of USD $270 million in return for Nasser's leadership on resolving the Arab-Israeli Conflict. Nasser presented himself as a tactical neutralist, and sought to play off US and Soviet concerns to Egyptian and Arab benefit.[4]

    Angered by the Baghdad Pact and following Ben-Gurionist theory, Israel attacked Egyptian forces in Gaza and defeated them soundly. Nasser realized that he could not legitimately portray himself as the leader of pan-Arab nationalism if Israel could push him around militarily. He looked to quickly modernize his military, and he turned to the USA first.

    John Foster Dulles and Dwight Eisenhower tell Nasser that the US will supply him with weapons only if they can send military personnel to supervise the training and use of the weapons. Nasser doesnít like these preconditions and looks to the USSR. Dulles believes that Nasser is only bluffing, and that the Soviet Union wonít aid Nasser. But the USSR promises Nasser a quantity of arms in exchange for a deferred payment of Egyptian grain and cotton. Instead of retaliating against Nasser for turning to the Soviets, Dulles sought to improve relations with Nasser. This explains the US/British offer of December í55.

    Though the Czech arms deal actually increased US willingness to invest in Aswan, the British cited the deal as a reason for withdrawing their funding. What angered Dulles much more was Nasserís recognition of communist China, which was in direct conflict with Dullesís policy of containment. There are several other reasons the US decided to withdraw the offer of funding. Dulles believed that the Soviet Union wouldnít actually make good on its promise to help the Egyptians out. He was also irritated by Nasserís neutrality and attempts to play both sides of the Cold War. Actual NATO allies in the Middle East, like Turkey and Iraq, were irritated that a persistently neutral country like Egypt was being offered so much aid.
    Egypt, politics and society, 1945-1990 - Google Book Search

    Now its quite obvious Egypt wasn't anything of an ally like Great Britain or France but we have had positive and meaningful relations with them with zero hostilities: we provided military and economic aid and worked to finance their dam. We even sabotaged British and French plans to capture the Sinai. We were every bit afraid that the Soviets would step in and capitalize on any animosity we directed toward Egypt. Nasser was in charge of a strong Arab country who had the ability to lead all Arab countries. This all changed with the Arab-Israeli conflicts and especially after the 6 day war when we stopped player neutral and backed Israel 100%.
    Last edited by scourge99; 04-11-09 at 09:08 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    Putting missiles in Cuba was a demonstrable threat.
    It was a test to see what we'd do. I mean, it isn't like we put missles in West Germany or anything...

    Khrushchev's "We will bury you" rhetoric was a demonstrable threat.
    Didn't mean much in the end, did it?

    Invading Afghanistan was a demonstrable threat to the West's access to the Persian Gulf states.
    Read: it got in the way of our undisputed control over a foreign nation's oil. Gotcha.

    Stealing US nuclear weapons secrets and technology was a demonstrable threat.

    Stealing US submarine technology was a demonstrable threat.
    Because we didn't have spies in the Kremlin or try to steal their MiG technology or anything.

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    What you're failing to understand, celticlord, is that if you have a perceived enemy, the appropriate steps are as follows:

    a. Do nothing until they do something 'really' bad. That way you are certain they are angry at us.

    b. After they do something 'really' bad, gather together our friends and allies to discuss the situation and gauge their feelings.

    c. Do a bit of soul-searching, and come to a better understanding of 'why' they hate us.

    d. Acknowledge our past mistakes and offenses. Apologize.

    e. Having given our friends and allies time to gauge their feelings, call upon them to act with us forcefully by boycotting the Special Olympics, and call upon the American people to carpool to work in order to reduce oil imports.

    f. After praying on the matter for almost a year... launch a few cruise missiles at tampon factories as a clear, demonstrable, and overwhelming show of military might.

    Did I miss anything?

    It is OBVIOUS that you comprehend the new change in foreign policy of the Community Organization of the United States.


  4. #124
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Way to quote nothing of use. Here, I will educate you even though its obvious an old dog can't learn new tricks.
    What profound irony considering the fact that you were the one who suggested that Egypt was a US ally. But when I prove this a false assertion you blather the thread with the above nonsense proving my argument and then state the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Now its quite obvious Egypt wasn't anything of an ally like Great Britain or France but we have had positive and meaningful relations with them with zero hostilities: we provided military and economic aid and worked to finance their dam. We even sabotaged British and French plans to capture the Sinai. We were every bit afraid that the Soviets would step in and capitalize on any animosity we directed toward Egypt. Nasser was in charge of a strong Arab country who had the ability to lead all Arab countries. This all changed with the Arab-Israeli conflicts and especially after the 6 day war when we stopped player neutral and backed Israel 100%.
    What level of willful denial and trolling does it take to make a false assertion, then when called on it suggest you could lecture ANYONE here on DP about history and the FACTS and then whine and rail about hyper partisanship?

    The only thing readily apparent here is your desperate trolling, your willful denial and suspension of disbelief and your warped versions of history to support your hate America first mentality.

    Please spare me more of your absurdity. You couldnít make a coherent factual argument if it walked up and slapped you on your hate America first skull.

  5. #125
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

    But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.
    I don't see what is so complicated here. He said that America has shown arrogance and we have. There are people in this country who still show arrogance. He didn't bring up the arrogance of other countries as a comparison at all as if to say we are any less or more arrogant than others. He simply stated that we have shown arrogance. He even went on to call out Europe on their anti-Americanism. Of course, people don't choose to focus on that part of his comments.

  6. #126
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It was a test to see what we'd do. I mean, it isn't like we put missles in West Germany or anything...

    Didn't mean much in the end, did it?

    Read: it got in the way of our undisputed control over a foreign nation's oil. Gotcha.

    Because we didn't have spies in the Kremlin or try to steal their MiG technology or anything.

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    You have got to be kidding with this nonsensical bile.

    The only thing more laughable than this tripe is the fact that Scourge thanked you for it.



    "It was a test to see what we'd do"

    Wrong; it was a direct threat to the safety of the United States.

    "I mean, it isn't like we put missles in West Germany"

    Yes we did; in direct response to the threat the Communist Soviet Union posed to Western Europe by targeting them with nukes.

    "Didn't mean much in the end, did it?"

    And this was only because we acted to the direct threat to peace and efforts of the Communist Soviet Union to dominate the world.

    "it got in the way of our undisputed control over a foreign nation's oil. "

    This is just an outright lie made in a vacuum of the historic facts.

    "Because we didn't have spies in the Kremlin or try to steal their MIG technology or anything."

    This level of denial is beyond absurd, it borders on hysterics. By the way, we didn't need to steal their MIG technology; it was the same tech stolen from us.

    The notion that we are the pot calling the Kettle black can only be made in a hate America first mental state supported by historical ignorance and willful denial.

    I am going to leave you with the OBVIOUS; had the actions of the Soviet Union and Communist China had not been an effort to dominate and threaten the far East, the Middle East, the South American continent or Western Europe, much of the history you so despise in a vacuum of the actions of the worlds enemies would not have occurred.

    Despite your hate America first attitude, the United States does not attempt to take over nations and their cultures in an effort to dominate them or control them and it supports human rights, freedom, prosperity and the necessary democracy it takes to achieve it.

    Dismissed; I am hardly surprised by who would thank you for comments so lacking in intellect and coherent facts.

  7. #127
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    What profound irony considering the fact that you were the one who suggested that Egypt was a US ally. But when I prove this a false assertion you blather the thread with the above nonsense proving my argument and then state the following:



    What level of willful denial and trolling does it take to make a false assertion, then when called on it suggest you could lecture ANYONE here on DP about history and the FACTS and then whine and rail about hyper partisanship?

    The only thing readily apparent here is your desperate trolling, your willful denial and suspension of disbelief and your warped versions of history to support your hate America first mentality.

    Please spare me more of your absurdity. You couldnít make a coherent factual argument if it walked up and slapped you on your hate America first skull.
    I gave you a link to the definition of "ally" and sourced numerous facts. Your inability to respond with anything but unsubstantive blathering is another testement to the futility in discussion with you.

    You'll undoubtedly win the asshat award this year.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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  8. #128
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I gave you a link to the definition of "ally" and sourced numerous facts. Your inability to respond with anything but unsubstantive blathering is another testement to the futility in discussion with you.

    You'll undoubtedly win the asshat award this year.
    *kicks dirt*

    Damnit I wanted the awarded.

  9. #129
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    We sure are. There's a decent amount of blind patriotism that goes on in the country and some people think that everything we do is right and just.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #130
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I gave you a link to the definition of "ally" and sourced numerous facts. Your inability to respond with anything but unsubstantive blathering is another testement to the futility in discussion with you.
    Wrong; you provided sources that support my contention that your claim that Egypt was an ally are beyond absurd, but rather indicate the typical emotional hysterics you engage in with your hate-America first rants.


    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    You'll undoubtedly win the asshat award this year.
    You just can't help yourself can you?

    Carry on.

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