View Poll Results: Should the right to bear children be regulated?

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  • Yes to help keep the poulation down so hunting lands don't get overcrowded!

    4 6.78%
  • Yes for other reasons

    15 25.42%
  • No this is dumb

    31 52.54%
  • Hmmm maybe

    9 15.25%
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Thread: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    ... abortion aside, euthanasia and eugenics certainly suggest a disregard for human life that I find disturbing, if that is indeed your position.
    ...
    the laws of the time, as you said, would be based on conserving resources, but I would hope that I would not be the only person to reject systematic murder of the weak under any circumstances.
    My premise, over population and lack of resources, either being the cause of the other.
    I am trying to place myself in that time devoid of my present feelings and emotions. If living in such a world, the attitudes of the people will have become somewhat different as a whole than they are now.
    (I could even see the Catholic Church reversing it's position on contraceptives.)
    How it would start and where it would end up.

    This is what I am thinking of. ???

    Steps would be taken by our law makers and those steps would increasingly become more strict if the population continued to outpace the resources.

    If voluntary euthanasia isn't in place, if and before said times come about, it will be one of the first things passed. As well as limiting the amount of children that can be had. (China)
    Those who can not afford to provide for a child's needs will be next to have laws passed on them. *

    Forms of eugenics will also play. With technology being what it is, those who can afford it (if not already happening by that time), will probably want to give their offspring the best chance possible to survive in such a world and this will be done through genetic manipulation. (A form of eugenics.) I can't see that as wrong in any way.

    * ~ **Not allowing those who couldn't afford to provide for a child's needs to have children, is, in and of itself, another form of eugenics. And based on how things would be at the time, I could not see it as a bad thing. **

    If a person/couple/family could not provide for the extra cost of supporting a disabled child they most likely wouldn't be allowed to have one, so testing would be done early, with prevention as the outcome. More eugenics.


    * ~ **
    Honestly. I don't know if this wouldn't be a good thing to implement now.
    As far as I am concerned, people shouldn't be bringing children into this world that they themselves cannot provide for.

  2. #22
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    First, a couple of pertinent facts regarding child birth and society:

    1. The fertility rate in the US is estimated at 2.05 births per woman in 2009.
    2. With some variance, the replacement fertility rate is around 2.1 births per woman.


    Even applying the utilitarian ethos implied in the OP, the question seeks to address a problem that, in the United States, does not exist. Absent immigration, US population would be largely stable or perhaps even trending downward; at best the US population is maintaining its numbers. Even if resource management were at issue (something for which the case has not been made), curtailing immigration would be the immediate palliative, for regulating birth rates would require several generations for the impact on the larger population to appear, due to the phenomenon of population momentum. Regulating child bearing is the wrong solution to a nonexistent problem; lacking justification, its imposition would be lacking in justice.

    Within the question's own ethos, the answer is already and emphatically "no".

    Moreover, the United States is not a nation driven by utilitarian ethics. Our government exists to "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." Our rights are the rights of individuals. "Liberty", within the framework of the Constitution, is not championed as a monolithic society doing what is best for itself, but is rather an endorsement and protection of each individual man's capacity to determine what is best for himself, with the larger society being so ordered as to give each man maximum latitude in that determination. This principle is explicitly stated in the Preamble of the Constitution, and its influence shows in every Amendment in the Bill of Rights, appearing again in explicit form in the 10th Amendment:
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    As a point of philosophy, one can debate ad infinitum the wisdom of a particular woman or couple having a child. However, wise or unwise, that choice is for the individual woman or couple to make; government is explicitly denied a capacity to govern over that choice. Liberty in this country includes the capacity to make mistakes, to do that which is unwise; we are a free people only because we are free to err, and free to suffer the consequences of our error.

    Thus one may safely say that, not only should the question be answered with a passionate "No!", the question itself is repugnant--and should be repugnant--to a free people whose defining civic virtue is that of liberty of the individual. Child bearing is a blessing, a gift from God to each woman, and no one on earth should presume to interfere.
    Last edited by celticlord; 04-06-09 at 09:07 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    In extreme circumstances, I think people ought to be controlled. Those who cannot afford to pay for the children they produce, who produce excessively because they are psychologically damaged (think Nadya Suleman), those who have, through their own actions, ruined their ability to have healthy children (think certain types of drug users), etc. It would be difficult to do, but the question wasn't about ease or ability, it was about taking a position.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    In extreme circumstances, I think people ought to be controlled. Those who cannot afford to pay for the children they produce, who produce excessively because they are psychologically damaged (think Nadya Suleman), those who have, through their own actions, ruined their ability to have healthy children (think certain types of drug users), etc. It would be difficult to do, but the question wasn't about ease or ability, it was about taking a position.
    Who determines what is extreme? What man is sufficiently endowed with wisdom and insight to co-opt the liberty of his fellow man?

  5. #25
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Abso-f'n-lutely not! No way, no how. WTF is this, commie China!? Regulate reproduction....that's just about cause for revolt. You can't dictate who can and can't have kids and how many they can have. Ridiculous. No way, no how!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #26
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Who determines what is extreme? What man is sufficiently endowed with wisdom and insight to co-opt the liberty of his fellow man?
    The same way we determine every other law, by popular vote and legislation, of course. You speak of liberty, but with liberty comes responsibility and when people stop taking personal responsibility for their actions, they stop deserving to have liberty.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #27
    Count Smackula
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    The issue really isn't so much who gets to raise the kids, but how many kids are born. This isn't an issue in industrialized countries, where birth rates are either negative or close to zero. The difficult choices are in nations with limited space and ever increasing population. China's one-child policy may have been draconian and perhaps too harshly implemented, but it prevented an even worse disaster from occurring. The world can only support so many people, and it can support even less in comfort.

    The ball really isn't in the U.S. court on this topic, its up to other nations or international bodies to try and solve it.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    I don't know the answer. What I do know is that my husband and I had to take over 39 hours of class to become adoptive parents. We also had to take 15 hours of class a year to continue to be foster parents. In addition, we had to go through a home study that was very personal. We had to discuss our relationship with each other and with our parents.

    It seems ironic to me that anyone can have a child but it is very difficult to be allowed to take care of the children who need care.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Ingesting drugs is not a biological process, as it requires an outside source.
    My wife required an outside source to get pregnant too... my penis and what it produced.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should child bearing be a controlled privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy
    So, if a time comes when the country or the world does not have enough resources for the population to survive as a whole, you would rather let the population suffer instead of staving it off, by forced abortions?
    I’d rather have individuals make those types of choices rather than the state. If you want to give up your individual choices to the state then go ahead but, I will not follow your path my friend.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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