View Poll Results: Which would you prefer?

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  • A world with one religion

    1 1.96%
  • A world with several religions

    23 45.10%
  • A world with no religion

    27 52.94%
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Thread: Which religious situation would you prefer?

  1. #31
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    No religions wouldn't give us less war, it'd just give us a world where men in silly hats are warring against men in funky clothes that are warring against sentient otters who wish to crack humanities head open and eat their entrails from upon their tummy.

    People are simply war like as a base nature, conflict is part of human nature. If religion wasn't part of that conflict something else would slide into the spot. Removing religion would not reduce conflict but simply change the reasoning of said conflict.
    You down with TPP?

  2. #32
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Define "lasting"..
    Put an ever- in front of it.

    Things must have a meaning, otherwise, why exist ?
    Good question.
    First ask:
    If everything is temproary, what meaning is there?

  3. #33
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Fear of God doesn't keep from us from killing, but prison sentences and the death penalty will do that to some extent.
    Keeping us from killing wasnt really the issue. The point was that if everything is temporary, then it doesnt really matter that you kill someone, or that someone kills you.

    I favor COMPLETE separation of church and state, with criminal penalties for either church or govt leaders who try to combine the two...
    So, someone with a "Reverend" in is name can never hold elected office?

  4. #34
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    There is no moral case in anyone's holy books that does not have a parallel in ordinary, non-theist based, government...
    Are you quite certain it is indeed a parallel and not a derivative? Man's faith predates man's government, and while government does indeed say killing is wrong without resorting to appeals to divinity, government says killing is wrong because man says killing is wrong. If man's position is derived from faith, then government's position is similarly derived from faith.

    Mere absence of a reference to a deity does not strip principles of government of their origins in the faiths of man.

  5. #35
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Things must have a meaning, otherwise, why exist ?
    Why must this be?

  6. #36
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Are you quite certain it is indeed a parallel and not a derivative? Man's faith predates man's government, and while government does indeed say killing is wrong without resorting to appeals to divinity, government says killing is wrong because man says killing is wrong. If man's position is derived from faith, then government's position is similarly derived from faith.

    Mere absence of a reference to a deity does not strip principles of government of their origins in the faiths of man.
    Much of Man's faith is derived from superstition....shall we allow astrologers to be judges?
    Survival instincts taught man to work together, rules of behavior are required in any group seeking survival in a dangerous world. The rules that worked are still with us.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  7. #37
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That is the point. If your life ends, why does it matter?
    because I feel joy, pleasure, and other emotions. Because there is always uncertainty. Because I want to make the world a better place even if I am not in it any longer.

    Importance to you does not equate to importance, it only equates to importance to you. You are temproary, and so any importance you place on something ends when you end.
    So? I can still find valid reasoning to be altruistic.

    In other words: any statement of importance you might make -- so what?
    only if you so choose to believe such. Its a CHOICE. There is but many conclusions due to uncertainity.

    If you (however you want to define you) ceases to exist when you die, then there is no lasting consequece for anything you do. Whatever penalty you may suffer for what you do is temproary, just as you are.
    this is but one narrow line if thought. Yes.

    You kill someone. So what?
    Someone kills you. So what?
    No matter what happens, you wind up the same.
    non-sequitur. If you believe in god and someone kills you, you still die. If you believe in God and killl someone else they still die. There is no difference.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #38
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's not true. People have sacraficed to gods ever since the concept of gods existed. There's no necessary relationship between killing people in the name of religion and hateful, angry, terrified people.
    Accepted. I was speaking more of the contemporary practice of religion, and assumed that was obvious.

    So, religious practice which does not demand human sacrifice has never killed a human being.

    I'd have to disagree with you on your second point. If you bomb an abortion clinic because your religious beliefs lead you to think that human beings are being murdered there, is not motivated by your anger at those you feel are defying the one true God? Hell, let's take it back even further. Human sacrifice was often motivated by the desire to please a God, or to ellicit some blessing from a God. Could fear, either of a negative response from God or in the latter case, fear of a lack of response from God, notbe seen as a strong motivating factor there?

    The fact is, religion itself is NOT dangerous. It can be wielded as a weapon, but that's down to the personal inclinations and prejudices of it's practitioners, not the religion itself.

  9. #39
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    because I feel joy, pleasure, and other emotions. Because there is always uncertainty. Because I want to make the world a better place even if I am not in it any longer.
    So what? You still end up the same.

    So? I can still find valid reasoning to be altruistic.
    So what? You still end up the same.

    This is but one narrow line if thought. Yes.
    If there is no lasting consequence for what you do, then what you do doesnt matter -- in the end, Hitler and Mother Teressa are exactly the same.

    non-sequitur. If you believe in god and someone kills you, you still die. If you believe in God and killl someone else they still die. There is no difference.
    You arent addressing the point
    The point is that your death or you causing someone to die are equally irrelevant and menaingless- you still end up the same.

  10. #40
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    Re: Which religious situation would you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima View Post
    Accepted. I was speaking more of the contemporary practice of religion, and assumed that was obvious.
    i assumed you were speaking in a more plenary nature. Thats what happens when you use terms like 'never' and 'always'.

    I'd have to disagree with you on your second point. If you bomb an abortion clinic because your religious beliefs lead you to think that human beings are being murdered there, is not motivated by your anger at those you feel are defying the one true God?
    There is not ALWAYS a necessary relationship.
    That doesnt mean that, sometimes, there is.

    Hell, let's take it back even further. Human sacrifice was often motivated by the desire to please a God, or to ellicit some blessing from a God. Could fear, either of a negative response from God or in the latter case, fear of a lack of response from God, notbe seen as a strong motivating factor there?
    Perhaps, but not necessarily. Hoping for a positive effect is not necessarily based on the fear of a negative effect.

    The fact is, religion itself is NOT dangerous. It can be wielded as a weapon, but that's down to the personal inclinations and prejudices of it's practitioners, not the religion itself.
    This is true.

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