View Poll Results: Should The Filibuster Be Removed

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  • Yes

    2 4.76%
  • No

    34 80.95%
  • No, but it should be reformed

    6 14.29%
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Thread: Removing the Filibuster

  1. #51
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Again, the way the founders argued, sometimes resulting in fatality(dueling) and the heated debates that formed the founding document, they would probably give the fillibuster a thumbs up, but that is just a guess on my part.
    I'm sorry, what specifically are you looking at?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  2. #52
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'm sorry, what specifically are you looking at?
    To form my opinion on the fillibuster? If that's the question, the history of our founding is what I am looking at, let's face it, even in the beginning there was harsh debate, much more impassioned than we have today, and the fillibuster has been in effect for most of our history, the way to shut down a railroading by a majority is to stop a vote from happening. The senate, with the appropriate amount of votes could end the fillibuster tomorrow, but I believe that would be both hypocritical and foolish, the hypocracy would come from removing the very thing they used to log jam Republican issues now that they have the majority, the foolish part comes from the fact that Democrat approval ratings are dropping at alarming rates, and that could make them a minority in 2010 or 12, so they would be at a severe disadvantage in the coming years. This is the final thought, and why I feel the filliibuster is in line with our founding values, being that debates were so heated back then, and that the founders always wanted the majority to have a sincere debate before coming to any decisions, we have a simple logical exercise that would dictate that the founders would be pretty proud of the fillibuster.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #53
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    fyi Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Recently, the Senate Republicans have been filibustering almost every single bill coming through the Senate. They've imposed a de facto 60 vote thresh hold to get anything passed.
    It looks like the filibustering has been too weak, not too severe. They did a quick job of railroading the bailouts and other devastating expenditures through with no meaningful opposition.

  4. #54
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    It looks like the filibustering has been too weak, not too severe. They did a quick job of railroading the bailouts and other devastating expenditures through with no meaningful opposition.
    That's true, fillibusters were much longer.....and more hilarious when it was a newer tactic, today it's just a rambling mess.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #55
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The founding fathers didn't add the filibuster. They clearly wrote in the constitution that all votes would be on a clear majority, with a few exceptions like impeachments or constitutional clearly defined. The filibuster was an unintentional loophole written into the senate rules. It wasn't even used till 1841, quite a bit after the founding fathers. In other words, it is not what the founding fathers wanted, and not in the constitution. I don't know where you got your info about filibustering from, but its crap.
    They also didn't write in a party system.
    Last edited by American; 04-09-09 at 11:21 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  6. #56
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They also didn't write in a party system.
    I think they were opposed to it if I remember correctly.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #57
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think they were opposed to it if I remember correctly.
    Washington was. I don't think we can really say Adams and Jefferson were, seeing as they started political parties.

    This is the final thought, and why I feel the filliibuster is in line with our founding values, being that debates were so heated back then, and that the founders always wanted the majority to have a sincere debate before coming to any decisions, we have a simple logical exercise that would dictate that the founders would be pretty proud of the fillibuster.
    This is your problem: you think the filibuster is used to have a "sincere debate". It's almost never used to ensure debate anymore, it's used as an obstructionist tactic.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  8. #58
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    This is your problem: you think the filibuster is used to have a "sincere debate". It's almost never used to ensure debate anymore, it's used as an obstructionist tactic.
    If the majority party decides to exclude the minority from open debates and inclusion in the legislative process as has been recently happening, then the filibuster serves a useful purpose.

    The biggest concern for all of us as citizens is the tyranny of the majority is it not?

    I am sure when the shoe is on the other foot with Republican majorities and control of both houses of Congress and the White House; you thought filibustering was a good idea.

  9. #59
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Washington was. I don't think we can really say Adams and Jefferson were, seeing as they started political parties.
    True, although I think that the party control was tightened up a few decades later.


    This is your problem: you think the filibuster is used to have a "sincere debate". It's almost never used to ensure debate anymore, it's used as an obstructionist tactic.
    I fully realize it's an obstruction tactic, never claimed otherwise. To obstruct debate is to argue, which is what the founders did alot, much more so than we do even today, which is my point, when debate leads to something of consequence the fillibuster is there to stop it, whether that consequence is getting a majority upon minority beatdown, an expansion of the government that the majority party wants, more tax powers, etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Filibuster is the only tool left to the minority sometimes.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

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