View Poll Results: Should The Filibuster Be Removed

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  • Yes

    2 4.76%
  • No

    34 80.95%
  • No, but it should be reformed

    6 14.29%
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Thread: Removing the Filibuster

  1. #11
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Anything that gums up the workings of Congress can hardly be said to go against the concept of American Democracy.

    However, my own skepticism of Congress notwithstanding, the filibuster is very much in keeping with the concept of American Democracy. It is very much in accordance with the Constitution, Article I, Section 5:

    The Founding Fathers gave each House the power to decide for itself what the regular order of affairs should be. The Founding Fathers may not have written the filibuster into the Constitution, but the license granted each House to set its own rules renders the point moot. The filibuster in the Senate is part of the rules devised by the Senate, in accordance with the powers and privileges granted each House of Congress per the Constitution.
    I'm not saying the filibuster goes against the rules of the constitution. But it does go against the spirit of the constitution, and the wishes of the founding fathers. If they had wanted a 3/5 majority on every bill, they would have written the constitution that way. Can you really give me a good reason, other than that if helps your agenda, that the filibuster should be kept?
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  2. #12
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I wonder if the senate would filibuster a filibuster bill
    They could try, but it says in the constitution that the senate ultimately makes their own rules. What that means is, in essence, if 51 senators (or 50 and Biden) want to push any issue, they can technically get away with it.
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'm not saying the filibuster goes against the rules of the constitution. But it does go against the spirit of the constitution, and the wishes of the founding fathers. If they had wanted a 3/5 majority on every bill, they would have written the constitution that way. Can you really give me a good reason, other than that if helps your agenda, that the filibuster should be kept?
    The Founding Fathers opted to give each House of Congress the power to write its own rules of order; in effect, they gave each House the power to decide the matter. The "spirit" of the Constitution is that each House establish its own rules of regular order--and thus the Senate has the filibuster.

    As for why it should be kept, the answer is simple. It preserves the rights of the minority. It ensures the majority will not trample the minority in passing legislation. By slowing down legislation, it allows for greater debate, and hopefully more meaningful debate; it helps ensure that laws are not enacted in the spur of the moment, or in a burst of partisan outrage.

  4. #14
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    does anyone else find the timing of this thread interesting?


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'm not saying the filibuster goes against the rules of the constitution. But it does go against the spirit of the constitution, and the wishes of the founding fathers. If they had wanted a 3/5 majority on every bill, they would have written the constitution that way. Can you really give me a good reason, other than that if helps your agenda, that the filibuster should be kept?
    Actually, the fillibuster is exactly in the spirit of the constitution. The founding fathers were not all of one mind when the constitution was ratified and some of the most heated political debate came from the very writing of our constitution, that process was based upon argument and concession, the fillibuster is merely a stalling tactic to see who can outlast it to get their bill passed, and I wouldn't have it any other way as I see the best thing for us is a congress too deadlocked to do anything to us in the form of unsuitable legislation. The best reason to keep the fillibuster is to prevent majority rule, which is not our system of governance, whether I agree with the side being fillibustered or not I prefer to have multiple opinions with the appropriate checks and balances, plus, there have historically been some hilarious uses of the fillibuster such as reading the phone book and other ridiculous stalls, it's high comedy at it's best.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  6. #16
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    We had the same kind of thread pop up in the past I believe when it was a majority republican senate.

    No, as we've seen under Bush and we're seeing again under Obama having one party dominate all three houses is incredibly dangerous for America as it allows for the very fabric of it to be changed drastically and monumnetally with absolutely no recourse. The Fillibuster is essential for minority rights and should remain, be it Dem or a Rep controlled congress.

    Frankly, I have a good laugh at ANY democrat that sat on this forum for the past few years and never ONCE uttered a PEEP about fillibuster being a problem NOW amazingly showing up and saying we need to get rid of it.

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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We had the same kind of thread pop up in the past I believe when it was a majority republican senate.

    No, as we've seen under Bush and we're seeing again under Obama having one party dominate all three houses is incredibly dangerous for America as it allows for the very fabric of it to be changed drastically and monumnetally with absolutely no recourse. The Fillibuster is essential for minority rights and should remain, be it Dem or a Rep controlled congress.

    Frankly, I have a good laugh at ANY democrat that sat on this forum for the past few years and never ONCE uttered a PEEP about fillibuster being a problem NOW amazingly showing up and saying we need to get rid of it.
    Pretty much hits the proverbial nail on the head.

  8. #18
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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    As a note too, and this may draw some thanks away from me ; )

    I laugh about it not necessarily because they're doing it ONLY because they want Republicans not to have it now, but because that likely means that this being a "problem" had never crossed their mind for years and now they've "suddenly" realized it. That makes me think that, in reality, consiously or subconsiously the issue for them isn't so much the filibuster as it is the filibuster causing what THEY see as "progress" from happening.

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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Recently, the Senate Republicans have been filibustering almost every single bill coming through the Senate. They've imposed a de facto 60 vote thresh hold to get anything passed. Now I'm sympathetic to the filibuster as a last ditch measure in extreme cases, but using it on a constant basis like this? I don't care which side is doing it, if it's being abused to this point, it needs to be cut. Now I know that as a Democrat, I'd be removing an important tool from our arsenal when we're in the minority, but something needs to be done, as I see it. The constitution only requires a super-majority on a few items, such as impeachments. To force bills to pass on a 60 vote line is just contrary to what the founding fathers wanted, and to the concept of democracy. But that's just my thoughts. What do you all think?
    Great topic and here are my thoughts on this:

    The Senate writes the rules. If the Democrat majority wants to re-write them at this critical time, then they are welcome to try it.

    However, there would be great political risk and once they are once again in the minority, although I think the American people are too dumb to do this any time soon, they will have to abide by the same rules.

    But the filibuster in my opinion is the ultimate tool of Democracy. It allows the minority to still have something that prevents them from being totally irrelevant and forces debate. Anytime thoughtful debate can be substituted for rubber stamping laws through Congress it should be welcome by any informed citizen.

    This begs the question, why is this an issue NOW for you? Do you think a rubber stamp congress is a good thing? Would you feel the same if Republicans were in charge?

    This is similar to the debate about the Fairness Doctrine. Both issues are attempts by the majority to shut down the minority in my opinion. No principled, thoughtful American should support anything that would do that.

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    Re: Removing the Filibuster

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As a note too, and this may draw some thanks away from me ; )

    I laugh about it not necessarily because they're doing it ONLY because they want Republicans not to have it now, but because that likely means that this being a "problem" had never crossed their mind for years and now they've "suddenly" realized it. That makes me think that, in reality, consiously or subconsiously the issue for them isn't so much the filibuster as it is the filibuster causing what THEY see as "progress" from happening.
    I am curious who this "they" are? I see that people like Hobo may take issue to this but have seen no news that politicians are talking about it, am I missing something here?

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