View Poll Results: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

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Thread: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, considering you've been absolutely wrong about anything dealing with Conservatism well...just about every single time I've ever interacted with you...excuse me as I don't really care what YOU tell me is the reality of things for the "conservative movement in America".

    The fact is, he's not the leader. That's an actual fact. He's not an elected leader, he's not the head of the GOP, over 90% of polled republicans don't consider him it. No matter how much you, like you routinely do, incorrectly tell conservatives what they believe doesn't make it true it just makes you ignorant on the subject.
    One only needs to point out: SD is not a conservative himself, so how would he know?

  2. #22
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, considering you've been absolutely wrong about anything dealing with Conservatism well...just about every single time I've ever interacted with you...excuse me as I don't really care what YOU tell me is the reality of things for the "conservative movement in America".

    The fact is, he's not the leader. That's an actual fact. He's not an elected leader, he's not the head of the GOP, over 90% of polled republicans don't consider him it. No matter how much you, like you routinely do, incorrectly tell conservatives what they believe doesn't make it true it just makes you ignorant on the subject.
    You can tell yourself that it if it makes you feel better. However, if a leader of a movement is described as the individual with the strongest contingency in the movement, then Boss Rush is your leader.

    You may think I am wrong, but I called this way back in 2006. I wrote a long OP/ED on the Republican Party's problem way back then and thus far I have been on the money far more than any of yall have been.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...post1057506414 ("Re-Broadcast" The Death of Movement Conservatism, A Republican Catch 22)
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  3. #23
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You can tell yourself that it if it makes you feel better. However, if a leader of a movement is described as the individual with the strongest contingency in the movement, then Boss Rush is your leader.
    What I find most interesting is that Democrats seem so fixated on whom the new GOP "leader" will be... only 50-some-odd days into their new president's term. You'd think they'd have other, more important things on their minds.

    After every presidential election the losing party goes through a period of uncertainty and turmoil. And pundits on both sides are full of gloomy dissections of 'what's gone wrong' and some even go so far as to write the obituary.

    I think Frum has fallen into that trap. Or he's just intentionally playing it for what it's worth at the moment.

    The fact of the matter is that no administration ever fully lives up to its ideals and promises. Both Reagan and Clinton maintained their high approval ratings at the end. But there were plenty on both sides of the spectrum who were unsatisfied with everything 'left undone' in their terms. The pendulum shifts back and forth. Young voters, though always more liberal, are also fickle. Their love affair with Obama will only take the Democrat party so far. Eventually another charismatic figure will rise on the GOP side and make a case for change... either four years from now or eight. Then Frum will have something entirely new to pontificate about.

    And Rush will still be Rush.


  4. #24
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Frum is as right about the future of the GOP as nuch as Rove was right about the future of the Democrats.

    I think that sums it up in a nutshell quite nicely, eh?
    I wouldn't get too excited.
    You folks ran on Foley and Blue Dogs to win the last midterms.
    You ran a Vaudeville act, The Messiah, for president this time. Now it's turned into a bad sitcom.

    These sideshows hid the fact you're still the tax and spend leftists you always were.

    At some point dealing from the bottom of the deck won't work anymore.

    Then what's left for The Left?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-28-09 at 09:47 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I wouldn't get too excited.
    You folks ran on Foley and Blue Dogs to win the last midterms.
    You ran a Vaudeville act, The Messiah, for president this time. Now it's turned into a bad sitcom.

    These sideshows hid the fact you're still the tax and spend leftists you always were.

    At some point dealing from the bottom of the deck won't work anymore.

    Then what's left for The Left?

    .
    I wouldn't get too excited.
    The GOP ran with old and inflexible McCain combined with young and ignorant Palin to lose the last election cycle.
    The GWB cycle was almost a comedy, if not for the tragic loss of life over the Iraq war, for no good reason, so far.
    These sideshows hid the fact you're still the borrow and spend right wing that you always were.

    At some point scraping from the bottom of the barrel won't work anymore.


    Then what's left for The GOP?

    Without NEW blood, untainted by the diseases of dementia so prevalent in the GOP, it just may be relegated to the back of the bus for a few decades....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I wouldn't get too excited.
    The GOP ran with old and inflexible McCain combined with young and ignorant Palin to lose the last election cycle.
    The GWB cycle was almost a comedy, if not for the tragic loss of life over the Iraq war, for no good reason, so far.
    These sideshows hid the fact you're still the borrow and spend right wing that you always were.

    At some point scraping from the bottom of the barrel won't work anymore.


    Then what's left for The GOP?

    Without NEW blood, untainted by the diseases of dementia so prevalent in the GOP, it just may be relegated to the back of the bus for a few decades....
    Conservatives said we need to stop allowing D's select our candidates.

    McCain was The Moderates candidate; Frum, Kristol, Barnes.
    He let Obama slide on Ayers and Wright.
    He was too similar to Obama on key issues.

    He was the Mods candidate and... he got beat by the most leftward and inexperienced modern candidate.
    Lee Atwater would have made minced meat of Obama.
    Unfortunately he wasn't around.

    Obama is making Bush look better by the day.

    The GOP future is a mix of old blood and new.
    Jindal and Palin are two deep threats.

    And neither seem to be the type to run a Pussy Whipped Campaign like McCain did.

    Foley and Vaudeville are used up... what slight of hand will you folks try next?
    The Race Card, like was run during your primaries?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-28-09 at 10:10 AM.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Conservatives said we need to stop allowing D's select our candidates.

    McCain was The Moderates candidate; Frum, Kristol, Barnes.
    He let Obama slide on Ayers and Wright.
    He was too similar to Obama on key issues.

    He was the Mods candidate and... he got beat by the most leftward and inexperienced modern candidate.
    Lee Atwater would have made minced meat of Obama.
    Unfortunately he wasn't around.

    Obama is making Bush look better by the day.

    The GOP future is a mix of old blood and new.
    Jindal and Palin are two deep threats.

    And neither seem to be the type to run a Pussy Whipped Campaign like McCain did.

    Foley and Vaudeville are used up... what slight of hand will you folks try next?
    The Race Card, like was run during your primaries?

    .
    Obama won because the GOP let him win. They put up a poor selection of candidates, allowed them to knife each other in the back, and then chose a "can't win" candidate to go up against the new blood that the nation was craving. Again, I usually vote Republican, and did the last 3 times for sure. But I am not bragging, I am complaining. Neither GWB or McCain were good candidates, they were just "good enough to beat the democrat".....
    Oracle of Utah
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  8. #28
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Obama won because the GOP let him win. They put up a poor selection of candidates, allowed them to knife each other in the back, and then chose a "can't win" candidate to go up against the new blood that the nation was craving. Again, I usually vote Republican, and did the last 3 times for sure. But I am not bragging, I am complaining. Neither GWB or McCain were good candidates, they were just "good enough to beat the democrat".....
    GWB was good where it counted most.
    That the left was a party of retreat, defeat and protest was their weakness.
    Their history and their turncoat behavior.
    It will kick them in the nuts in the future. Good so.

    We had several candidates that could have done a far better job, but as McCain noted when he won the nomination... thanks to I's and independent minded D's... we got him.

    We have to stop IA and NH from dictating who the guts of our field will be.

    Thompson, Giuliani, Romney were far better candidates.
    Better fighters and communicators.

    McCain didn't exploit Obama's many and significant weaknesses.

    That's life.

    But for the future of D's, as noted... have run out of trick plays.
    Next time around Obama will have to defend his reign of error.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-28-09 at 01:38 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    How is Conservativism dead, dying or in trouble again?

    I hear lots of liberals pointing out... obviously faulty views of what a conservative is, what conservatives want, and how it's just not gonna work. Really, a liberal finding problems with Conservative thinking and not getting it, someone call a press conferance!

    I hear so called moderates saying the GOP needs to be more moderate... more moderate then what? Pickign John McCain as the Presidential Candidate? Yeah that's a dead end people.

    The Conservative movement will come back, as it always does, when the left over reaches, and puts us into a hole. Cater brought us Reagan for example. Obama is pushing for such exapnsive, intrusive and cotrolling federal government that he... and the DNC are gonna over reach themselves. When that happens the Conservative movement will regain it's traction, lost in the jumble with Bush and the GOP 2002-2008 move to use government to solve problems instead of the right way....

    And it will swing back for a while, and then it will go back the other way againa nd the cycle will repeat itself.

    I for one am jsut glad we a have system where that is still possible, and thank God for it everyday.
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    I told her "... N... N.. No..." and started crying.


  10. #30
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    Re: Is David Frum right about Conservatism's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    GWB was good where it counted most.
    That the left was a party of retreat, defeat and protest was their weakness.
    Their history and their turncoat behavior.
    It will kick them in the nuts in the future. Good so.

    We had several candidates that could have done a far better job, but as McCain noted when he won the nomination... thanks to I's and independent minded D's... we got him.

    We have to stop IA and NH from dictating who the guts of our field will be.

    Thompson, Giuliani, Romney were far better candidates.
    Better fighters and communicators.

    McCain didn't exploit Obama's many and significant weaknesses.

    That's life.

    But for the future of D's, as noted... have run out of trick plays.
    Next time around Obama will have to defend his reign of error.

    .
    funny play on words....I guess..
    What if the DOW returns to 14,000 and joblesses drops to historic levels and we return to our position of creditor nation instead of debtor nation ?
    I predict that Obama will succeed despite the best efforts of whiny republicans who are so partisan that they would rather see success delayed til it can happen on their watch. Hopefully, they are holding their breath til that happens, so the worst of them can suffocate. I want to continue voting republican, but won't vote for a pervert who hangs out in public restrooms, serial adulterers, intern molesters, scumbags who rip off indian tribes with promises of casino permits, bribe takers, and the list can go on but you get the idea.
    The GOP hoisted itself on its own petard, and it can't get off!!!!
    Conservatism has to find a new home if the GOP house can't evict the current residents who only masquerade as conservatives.

    Selfishness and greed are the clarion call for GOP uber capitalists who only pretend to be conservatives.

    There seems to be no capacity for shame and/or embarrassment among the GOP.

    Their only real talent lately has been to try to sweep things under the rug, coverup the crimes of their colleagues, and to try to dupe the dopes among us who still have faith in the GOP leadership...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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