View Poll Results: Should the Government Raise Gasoline Taxes To Force People to Buy Fuel Efficient Cars

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25. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. Not the government's job.

    23 92.00%
  • Yes, I won't buy a hybrid unless someone tells me too

    1 4.00%
  • Yes, and people can't prove they've bought GM, they should lose their tax refund.

    1 4.00%
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Thread: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

  1. #21
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Why do you guys always want to make other people pay to assuage your self-flagellating guilt over something or other?
    What are you talking about? Do you deny that the American taxpayers - not just Hummer drivers - bear the cost for environmental cleanup and fighting terrorism?
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  2. #22
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    EVERYONE in America benefits from the sale and use of gasoline, either directly as a fuel for their transport, or as fuel for the transport of their goods and services.

    So when you're saying the people "responsible" for those "externalities", do you mean we should tax terrorism, or do you mean you support that fuel tax....but that means, of course, "passing the burden off to the American public as a whole"....because the American public as a whole is consuming the gas.
    Everyone consumes to varying degrees. With a gas tax that applied equally to every gallon of gasoline sold, you would be taxed exactly your share of the consumption and not a penny more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    No. It wouldn't use market force to dissuade people from buying gas, it would bend the market out of shape.
    Obviously you do not understand the difference between using market forces and having a utopian laissez-faire free market economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Not to mention that it would crash the economy and make crawling out of this recession impossible.
    The tax could be offset by cutting payroll taxes by an appropriate amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    I still wouldn't buy GM.

    I'm never buying a GM car again.
    I'm not sure where you got the idea that I want you to buy GM or give a crap what company you buy from. Perhaps you have mistaken me for an Evil Liberal Bogeyman who believes everything that you imagine liberals believe.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-18-09 at 05:18 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why? Supply doesn't take into account the pollution from YOUR car going into MY lungs. It doesn't take into account MY gasoline consumption funding terrorism in the Middle East, to which the United States then has to devote tax dollars to fight. It doesn't take into account the weakening of the United States and the strengthening of Russia.

    These are public problems, not individual problems. As such, the cost of gasoline should reflect those costs.
    Oh your lungs are fine. If driving cars was hurting peoples lungs, we'd all be dead by now. Most of our gas is brought in from Mexico and Canada. So I guess we should negatively impact their economies, before there is a need to.

    Alternatives are fine, but they aren't economically feasible. Artifically replacing an energy source, with a less economical one is one of the dumbest things we could do. When alternatives become economical, people will buy them. There's no reason to rush into it, before it needs to happen though.
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  4. #24
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Everyone consumes to varying degrees. With a gas tax that applied equally to every gallon of gasoline sold, you would be taxed exactly your share of the consumption and not a penny more or less.
    Yeah. I know that.

    You're the one pretending that a gasoline tax wouldn't be carried by everyone living in the country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Obviously you do not understand the difference between using market forces and having a utopian laissez-faire free market economy.
    Obviously, I do.

    Prices are set by market forces. When prices are set by command...the market forces are distorted.

    So, where do you get the idea that the government exists to alter the behavior of the general law abiding population, anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The tax could be offset by cutting payroll taxes by an appropriate amount.
    No, it couldn't.

    Wages paid don't correlate to fuel taxes paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not sure where you got the idea that I want you to buy GM or give a crap what company you buy from. Perhaps you have mistaken me for an Evil Liberal Bogeyman who believes everything that you imagine liberals believe.
    Don't worry, you've missed the point of the entire thread.

    Here: The leading article was a story about how the CEO of GM was saying that the government should tax gasoline to establish a minimum per gallon price of gasoline of $4.00. Not for any overblown silly environmental concerns, but because no one's buying GM's products and GM is going to pin it's future viability on sales of a hybrid vehicle, a vehicle which will face higher demand if gasoline was over-the-top expensive like it was last year when it tipped the economy into collapse.

    Personally, I think the guy if full of little red ants and I'm never buying one of his company's cars, ever again.

    While somethings can be said in favor of "buy American", it's plain stupid to do that when the seller is an anti-American boob trying to extort sales from a captive market.

    Perhaps you could read the OP sometime, if you're interested.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 03-18-09 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yeah. I know that.

    You're the one pretending that a gasoline tax wouldn't be carried by everyone living in the country.
    Uhh when the **** did I ever suggest any such thing? That's the whole bloody point of a gas tax. There's really no point in my debating you if you aren't going to read my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Obviously, I do.

    Prices are set by market forces. When prices are set by command...the market forces are distorted.

    So, where do you get the idea that the government exists to alter the behavior of the general law abiding population, anyway?
    Because pollution, terrorism, and foreign policy are public problems that are funded by the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    No, it couldn't.

    Wages paid don't correlate to fuel taxes paid.
    Sure they do. If the government earns $X from a fuel tax, then they cut payroll taxes by $X. Pretty simple.
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  6. #26
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Oh your lungs are fine. If driving cars was hurting peoples lungs, we'd all be dead by now.
    I don't mean that it's going to kill everyone, but surely you don't deny that gasoline consumption has some environmental consequences that are borne by the public?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    Alternatives are fine, but they aren't economically feasible. Artifically replacing an energy source, with a less economical one is one of the dumbest things we could do. When alternatives become economical, people will buy them. There's no reason to rush into it, before it needs to happen though.
    There is reason to rush it. Every year that we wait is another year that terrorists receive funding from American consumers, another year that car exhausts pollute our atmosphere, and another year that the United States is dependent on petrocracies.
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  7. #27
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't mean that it's going to kill everyone, but surely you don't deny that gasoline consumption has some environmental consequences that are borne by the public?
    I agree, it does have an environmental impact. But until you are willing to have everything you use shipped to you via carrier pigeon or cart and horse, you in no way have a right to impose an obscenely high tax on those who drive.


    There is reason to rush it. Every year that we wait is another year that terrorists receive funding from American consumers, another year that car exhausts pollute our atmosphere, and another year that the United States is dependent on petrocracies.
    Now this is a good reason to curb consumption with a tax.

  8. #28
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What are you talking about? Do you deny that the American taxpayers - not just Hummer drivers - bear the cost for environmental cleanup and fighting terrorism?
    Dont care about any of that. The countries fiscal future is being tossed out the window by your congress and your president as we speak. The puppet congress and President just paid the bankers trillions in money with no oversight and the banks turned around and loaned it back to the US with interest. Our own money! Our leadership has no rapport with the American taxpayer as evidence by the train of tax evaders they appointed in office. They cannot effectively represent taxpayers if they do not pay taxes.
    Just like McCains could not represent conservatives. He is not one.

    We have larger issues to consider than your neighbors loud hummer right now.
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Uhh when the **** did I ever suggest any such thing?
    Right here, post #12:
    "The people who are most responsible for those externalities should most certainly have to pay for them, instead of passing the burden off to the American public as a whole."


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's the whole bloody point of a gas tax. There's really no point in my debating you if you aren't going to read my posts.
    I did read your posts.

    Maybe if you read your posts, too, we'd have a mutual understanding of what your saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because pollution, terrorism, and foreign policy are public problems that are funded by the government.
    Pollution is funded by the government? Terrorism is funded by the government? This isn't Iran, dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sure they do. If the government earns $X from a fuel tax, then they cut payroll taxes by $X. Pretty simple.
    Pretty simple...so lets look at two workers who earn identical salaries and will thus get equal amounts of money back from a tax cut.

    There's Joe, who lives two miles from work and buys five gallons of gas a week, will pay $10 a week in gas tax, and then there's Jane, who commutes sixty miles each way daily and buys fifty gallons of gas a week, paying $100 a week in gas tax in this example. They both get a $15 a week tax savings.

    Joe's happy. Joe has no incentive to cut his gasoline consumption, heck he can afford a couple more gallons and not see any impact. He's planning a road trip to Las Vegas.

    How do you think Jane's doing?

    See how simple it was to show that your suggestion doesn't work?

  10. #30
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    Re: I Think Democrats Should Push All Out For This One.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Dont care about any of that. The countries fiscal future is being tossed out the window by your congress and your president as we speak. The puppet congress and President just paid the bankers trillions in money with no oversight and the banks turned around and loaned it back to the US with interest. Our own money! Our leadership has no rapport with the American taxpayer as evidence by the train of tax evaders they appointed in office. They cannot effectively represent taxpayers if they do not pay taxes.
    Just like McCains could not represent conservatives. He is not one.

    We have larger issues to consider than your neighbors loud hummer right now.
    Relevance fail.
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