View Poll Results: Federal (Income) Tax. You Pick the Rate.

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  • 5%

    22 37.93%
  • 10%

    10 17.24%
  • 15%

    4 6.90%
  • 20%

    7 12.07%
  • 25%

    5 8.62%
  • 30%

    2 3.45%
  • 35%

    3 5.17%
  • 40%

    2 3.45%
  • 45%

    1 1.72%
  • 50% and higher

    2 3.45%
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Thread: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

  1. #61
    User SicSemperTyrannis's Avatar
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    rolleyes Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    No it's not a government entity, you're wrong. It is considered "independent within the government". It doesn't answer to anybody, it creates its own policy. The Constitution gives the Treasury the power to coin money and create monetary policy, and Alexander Hamilton went to great lengths to explain how we should back our currency with silver, another precious metal with intrinsic value. The Fed's website explains this, although I disagree greatly with their other explanations of what they do. FRB: FAQs: Federal Reserve System


    Here is a detailed history of the Fed dating back from 1992 by a highly regarded certified public accountant, Thomas D. Schauf. The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation

    And here is a direct quote from President Woodrow Wilson, showing remorse after creating the Fed. http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_...son.Quote.51CE

    And here is a speech given by Rep. Kucinich on the House floor. YouTube - Kucinich: Federal Reserve No More "Federal" Than Federal Express!

    And here is a clip of Rep. Ron Paul talking about the illegality and unconstitutioanlity of the Fed. YouTube - Ron Paul "The Federal Reserve Is the Source of Our Problems!!

    And for the record, I never said we should be trading with gold. A paper currency is perfectly acceptable, but it needs to backed with something of intrinsic value. A fiat currency does not work. In fact, our dollar is going down in flames and the rest of the world is trying to find another currency to make as their reserve currency. U.N. panel says world should ditch dollar | U.S. | Reuters
    Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin calls for end of dollar … - Telegraph.co.uk | Karl Foreman

    The only way out of this depression is to lower taxes, abolish the income tax, dramatically cut spending, shrink the size of government, stop with the bailouts, and put us back on the gold standard. Hopefully the 30,000 links I provided you are enough.

  2. #62
    User SicSemperTyrannis's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Oh by the way, here is the brilliant economist Peter Schiff talking about how the Fed is destroying the economy through inflation. YouTube - Peter Schiff on CNBC March 19, 2009 made Liesman poop in his pants

    Have fun eating humble pie.

  3. #63
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    fyi Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    10% seems fair, especially if you allow for a persona exemption that will reduce the burden on the poor.

    For 2008, I paid 3.93% in Federal income tax (line 37/ line 61)
    I bet you paid a much higher percentage for your FICA tax, especially if you are self-employed.


    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    A flat 10% isn't enough. Even if you only payed for things explicitly required in the constitution, like the military and the census and interest payment on the debt, it still wouldn't be enough. Taxes need to reflect spending, and its impossible to cut spending to the levels needed to sustain a 10% tax rate unless you truly gutted the military.
    You gut the multitudes of things government should never do. Some agencies that need at least a 90% cut include the EPA, DEA, ATF, OSHA, EEOC, IRS, the world's greatest Ponzi scheme (social security) with its projected debt of $50 TRILLION--1000 times Madoff's scandal, Foreign aid and entanglements, and numerous others. If we abided by the Constitution, a 5% rate should be enough. If that rate was written in stone as an absolute maximum, it would be a great way to limit the catastrophic growth of government. Same for state and local governments--with an even lower rate, perhaps 2%.

  4. #64
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Um, even if I were a person who supported what Republicans were doing, which I'm not, I was comparing Liberals and Conservatives, not Republicans and Democrats.
    Ah, I see. You're one of the conservatives who considers the 90% of the population that favors more than a bare-bones government to be liberals.

    Fine. By your definition, liberals want more taxes and more spending, and conservatives want less taxes and less spending. But since we "liberals" are 90% of the population and control both parties and the entire government, why not pay for what we're spending NOW? When you can get another 41% of the population to join you, then maybe we'll talk about doing the opposite and cutting taxes and spending. In the mean time, let's pay for our government...at least when economic times get better.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-20-09 at 03:00 PM.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    No it's not a government entity, you're wrong. It is considered "independent within the government".
    You can't be serious.

    My undergrad had a program that allows students to independently create their own majors. Therefore, students in that program are not part of the school.

    Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

    It doesn't answer to anybody, it creates its own policy.
    Did you miss the whole part about the entire board of governors being appointed by the president and approved by the senate, or the part about Congress dictating the scope of the Fed's operation?

    Here is a detailed history of the Fed dating back from 1992 by a highly regarded certified public accountant, Thomas D. Schauf. The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation
    Here's a screenshot of the "apfn.org" homepage right now:



    Forgive me if I don't give much credence to things posted there.

    I literally could not care less about anything that Paul and Kucinich said.

    And for the record, I never said we should be trading with gold. A paper currency is perfectly acceptable, but it needs to backed with something of intrinsic value. A fiat currency does not work. In fact, our dollar is going down in flames and the rest of the world is trying to find another currency to make as their reserve currency.
    The point is that if the economy is to the point where the US dollar is worthless, there will be no currency backed by anything.

    The only way out of this depression is to lower taxes, abolish the income tax, dramatically cut spending, shrink the size of government, stop with the bailouts, and put us back on the gold standard. Hopefully the 30,000 links I provided you are enough.
    They were enough to convince me that you

    a) Don't know what you're talking about, and
    b) Are just another one of the conspiracy theorists who it's pointless to argue with.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #66
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Please read this very carefully and think about it before responding......IF WE GO BACK ON THE GOLD STANDARD NOW WE CAN AVERT THE CURRENCY CRISIS AND CONTROL SPENDING. I really really really do not get what is so difficult to understand about that.

    And for the record, I read the Schauf article previosuly from another source, but I didn't have to sift through Google so I used apfn, even though the website is extremely anti-Semetic and I don't endorse their opinions on Jewish people. So DR. Ron Paul has no idea what he's talking about? Ludwig von Mises didn't know what he was talking about? Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, Kucinich all don't know what they are talking about? They've been warning us about the housing bubble for years and they've been warning about the currency crisis that's starting to unfold right now. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm enrolled in an economics program at an Ivy League institution. Since you're such a great economic forecaster, why aren't you on MSNBC isntead of Peter Schiff? Why aren't you a 10 term Congressman? For all intents and purposes, we should just agree to disagree. You have a right to your opinions, though I wholeheartedly disagree with them 100% and I think you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about (some might say you are the Dick Vitale of economics), you have a right to them and I respect that.

    Cheers.

  7. #67
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    In fact, our dollar is going down in flames and the rest of the world is trying to find another currency to make as their reserve currency.
    Mabey they should use gold as well

  8. #68
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    Please read this very carefully and think about it before responding......IF WE GO BACK ON THE GOLD STANDARD NOW WE CAN AVERT THE CURRENCY CRISIS AND CONTROL SPENDING. I really really really do not get what is so difficult to understand about that.
    And for the record, I read the Schauf article previosuly from another source, but I didn't have to sift through Google so I used apfn, even though the website is extremely anti-Semetic and I don't endorse their opinions on Jewish people. So DR. Ron Paul has no idea what he's talking about? Ludwig von Mises didn't know what he was talking about? Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, Kucinich all don't know what they are talking about? They've been warning us about the housing bubble for years and they've been warning about the currency crisis that's starting to unfold right now. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm enrolled in an economics program at an Ivy League institution. Since you're such a great economic forecaster, why aren't you on MSNBC isntead of Peter Schiff? Why aren't you a 10 term Congressman? For all intents and purposes, we should just agree to disagree. You have a right to your opinions, though I wholeheartedly disagree with them 100% and I think you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about (some might say you are the Dick Vitale of economics), you have a right to them and I respect that.

    Cheers.
    You're an Econ major and still think:

    1) That the income tax is unconstitutional
    2) That the federal reserve is privately run
    3) That the federal reserve is designed to turn a profit
    4) That eliminating the Fed would magically make our domestic debt disappear
    5) That Kennedy "eliminated" the Fed

    Unless you're a freshman, call PrezBo on Monday and ask for a refund.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SicSemperTyrannis View Post
    And here is a direct quote from President Woodrow Wilson, showing remorse after creating the Fed. http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_...son.Quote.51CE
    I also couldn't ignore this, as Wilson is one of my pet issues.

    Here's the quote that you claim Wilson said, expressing remorse after creating the Fed:

    I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
    A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
    Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
    therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
    We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
    controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
    No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
    conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
    the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
    Now, the facts.

    1) The first two sentences don't exist. The actual quote is from Wilson's book "The New Freedom". Someone added those two sentences because they wanted to make it seem like Wilson was expressing remorse.

    2) It would be kind of hard for Wilson to be expressing remorse for his decision to create the Fed in this quote, considering the book was published sometime in 1913 and he didn't sign the bill creating the Fed until Dec. 23, 1913.

    Unless he signed the bill on Dec. 23, changed his mind on Dec. 24, and then wrote and published this book by Dec. 31, it's obvious that he's not referring to the Fed.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #70
    Count Smackula
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    You gut the multitudes of things government should never do. Some agencies that need at least a 90% cut include the EPA, DEA, ATF, OSHA, EEOC, IRS, the world's greatest Ponzi scheme (social security) with its projected debt of $50 TRILLION--1000 times Madoff's scandal, Foreign aid and entanglements, and numerous others. If we abided by the Constitution, a 5% rate should be enough. If that rate was written in stone as an absolute maximum, it would be a great way to limit the catastrophic growth of government. Same for state and local governments--with an even lower rate, perhaps 2%.
    You don't get it. A 10% tax rate is not enough to pay for everything explicitly mandated in the constitution unless you cut the military by a drastic amount. Cutting every single social program in existence isn't good enough. Roughly 40% of the budget is constitutionally mandated, and social security (20%) brings in its own revenue. That leaves 40% you can cut, which isn't enough to offset the massive reduction in revenue.

    I got to say, I am not thrilled with the responses to this thread. Everyone seems to just be picking numbers they like without any dose of reality. Sure a 10% tax rate is a nice fantasy, but don't assume that you can get that merely by cutting the programs you don't like. Keeping our current military strength and a 10% tax rate are mutually exclusive possibilities.

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