View Poll Results: Federal (Income) Tax. You Pick the Rate.

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  • 5%

    22 37.93%
  • 10%

    10 17.24%
  • 15%

    4 6.90%
  • 20%

    7 12.07%
  • 25%

    5 8.62%
  • 30%

    2 3.45%
  • 35%

    3 5.17%
  • 40%

    2 3.45%
  • 45%

    1 1.72%
  • 50% and higher

    2 3.45%
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Thread: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

  1. #41
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    You don't get it. A 10% income tax wouldn't be enough to pay for our military+interest on the debt even if you cut every single other government program in existence. You can't have a a military as strong as our current one with a 10% income tax, period. .

    I don't have hard numbers on this, but dramatic reductions in tax rates usually lead to dramatic improvement in the economy, which in turn leads to more gross revenue for the government even with a smaller percentage. Worked that way when Reagan did it, and also with the JFK tax cut IIRC.

    In which case, 10% might be enough...especially since, if we stop being the Global Police, we could put half our active-duty troops into the Reserves and still be extremely secure against invasion. (IMO)

    You'd have to do away with all entitlments, and all Federal programs that essentially equal "robbing Peter to pay Paul", of course. That's where the bloat in the budget really is.

    Of course, the gov't is about as likely to do all that as a pig is to grow wings and fly. In fact I'd have to bet on the pig.


    G.
    Last edited by Goshin; 03-19-09 at 05:31 PM. Reason: sp.

  2. #42
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    .
    That's the only thing Liberals and Conservatives agree on.

    Where there's disagreement is rather there should be little tax and little spending or lots of tax and lots of spending.
    It seems the paradigm has shifted for both groups towards increased spending and lower taxes. Its the worst of both worlds for our deficit.

  3. #43
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    NO!

    That's bass ackwards.

    You don't base your household budget on what you spend, you base it on what you make and live below your means.
    There just might be a few subtle differences between an entity that is responsible for 300 million people and an entire economy, and an entity that is responsible for 4 people and a home.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's the only thing Liberals and Conservatives agree on.

    Where there's disagreement is rather there should be little tax and little spending or lots of tax and lots of spending.
    Actually most of the disagreement is whether there should be little tax and lots of spending, or lots of tax and lots of spending.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    I don't have hard numbers on this, but dramatic reductions in tax rates usually lead to dramatic improvement in the economy, which in turn leads to more gross revenue for the government even with a smaller percentage.
    No they don't. Iriemon has refuted this one with numbers many a time one this forum. Search for his posts in the economics forum if you want. Cutting taxes has a little correlation with economic growth, and revenues get lower when taxes are cut. In places like Sweden with very high taxes that might work, but not in a place like the U.S. with already low taxes. Furthermore, a reduction to 10% is far to drastic. The economy would have to triple to break even on revenue.


    In which case, 10% might be enough...especially since, if we stop being the Global Police, we could put half our active-duty troops into the Reserves and still be extremely secure against invasion. (IMO)
    It would help, but still not be enough.

    You'd have to do away with all entitlments, and all Federal programs that essentially equal "robbing Peter to pay Paul", of course. That's where the bloat in the budget really is.
    The total cost of our military+debt+other constitutionally required functions is about 40% of the budget. Social security makes up 20% of the remaining, and social security pays for itself (at least right now). That only leaves 40% of what you could theoretically cut.

    Honestly this whole thread is what is wrong with our view of taxation. Everyone wants a 10% tax rate, but are unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to sustain it. Cutting taxes without cutting spending is NOT sustainable in the long term.

  6. #46
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There just might be a few subtle differences between an entity that is responsible for 300 million people and an entire economy, and an entity that is responsible for 4 people and a home.
    The concept of personal responsibility is lost on you, I see.

  7. #47
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The concept of personal responsibility is lost on you, I see.
    No, it appears that the concept of "apples and oranges" is completely lost on you.

  8. #48
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    No they don't. Iriemon has refuted this one with numbers many a time one this forum. Search for his posts in the economics forum if you want. Cutting taxes has a little correlation with economic growth, and revenues get lower when taxes are cut. In places like Sweden with very high taxes that might work, but not in a place like the U.S. with already low taxes. Furthermore, a reduction to 10% is far to drastic. The economy would have to triple to break even on revenue.
    I will have to read the posts in question and do some research on this, before accepting the assertion or having the ammo to refute it. I know Reagan cut taxes substantially, and am reasonably certain that the economy and revenues grew substantially during the following decade; I don't have proof and figures at my fingertips just now. Will come back to that later when I do.


    The total cost of our military+debt+other constitutionally required functions is about 40% of the budget. Social security makes up 20% of the remaining, and social security pays for itself (at least right now). That only leaves 40% of what you could theoretically cut.
    Social Security isn't paying for itself; the SS taxes go in the General fund and is spent on whatever Congress likes, if I am not much mistaken; the 'lock box' is full of IOUs. At any rate the point is moot, it's established that SS will bankrupt us at some point in the not-too-far future if not reformed or phased out. I have 20-some years to go and serious doubts I will ever collect a cent I paid in.
    If we quit being the Global Cop (and understand I am not anti-military, FAR from it) we could probably cut military spending substantially without being any less secure against actual invasion. I understand the argument that, because the economy is global, we have to protect our intrests overseas; I understand that once in a while we have to strike an enemy that is bent on hitting us at home (as in 9/11). Still I think a large percentage of what we do overseas is not absolutely necessary and could be brought to an end, with some economic reform at home and a return to constitutional gov't. It's a debateable point, I know; frankly I have personally gone back-and-forth on this issue over the past several years.

    Possibly you're right that a 10% flat rate would be insufficient; still I think it makes a nice target to shoot for.


    Honestly this whole thread is what is wrong with our view of taxation. Everyone wants a 10% tax rate, but are unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to sustain it. Cutting taxes without cutting spending is NOT sustainable in the long term.
    I'd be willing to do a lot of cutting. The problem is the Congress isn't, and fundamentally that a lot of voters who have been (perhaps deliberately) addicted to Federal aid and programs aren't.

    G.

  9. #49
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually most of the disagreement is whether there should be little tax and lots of spending, or lots of tax and lots of spending.
    No that's not accurate at all. Not in the least.

  10. #50
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, it appears that the concept of "apples and oranges" is completely lost on you.
    Well if it is then it's also lost on my avatar and the millions of people who follow his principals and end up financially independent

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