View Poll Results: Federal (Income) Tax. You Pick the Rate.

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  • 5%

    22 37.93%
  • 10%

    10 17.24%
  • 15%

    4 6.90%
  • 20%

    7 12.07%
  • 25%

    5 8.62%
  • 30%

    2 3.45%
  • 35%

    3 5.17%
  • 40%

    2 3.45%
  • 45%

    1 1.72%
  • 50% and higher

    2 3.45%
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Thread: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

  1. #131
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Come now! The rational analysis will identify the financial class as the true "parasites."
    The rational analysis will show that the financial sector provides an actual service.

    The parasite class, by definition, does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I've already discussed "the role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation" elsewhere, which well identifies the lack of legitimate effort or just gains in the vast majority of that aggregate capital accumulation by the financial class. Considering their ultimate idleness, they serve little purpose other than provision of capital, which would be more efficiently accomplished through their dispossession and collectivization of the means of production. And as I always say, a picture speaks a thousand words!

    I can see more than one reason for demanding English to be the national language.

    Providing capital is a purpose, is it not?

    Providing capital is a necessary purpose, is it not?

    Therefore, your argument that they're useless is invalidated by your own words.

  2. #132
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Considering the oft-mentioned role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation,
    I believe that's called "inheritance" in the real world.

    Since the people (government) claiming the money didn't do anything or take any risks to earn it, clearly their claim should be null and void and 100% of all inheritance should be passed on to the heirs of the estate.

  3. #133
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's far from being accurate. Establishing workers' ownership and management of firms will ensure a strong motivation to work, due to the equitable distribution of profits.



    Considering the oft-mentioned role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation, their role is typically that of "possessing" wealth rather than independently creating it.
    ?? where are you gettting those crazy ideas??

    competition nearly always increases efficency, if you have an example of the efficency of collective economies you need an example before you type that.

    I can name some, India, China and Singapore.


    What do you mean wealth is "possessed" instead of created in the world? how do you explain the large economic growth in China from some free market principles? Therefore, the wealth is created and is not stagnant in each country.

    you need example and evidence for what you say.

  4. #134
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I believe that's called "inheritance" in the real world.

    Since the people (government) claiming the money didn't do anything or take any risks to earn it, clearly their claim should be null and void and 100% of all inheritance should be passed on to the heirs of the estate.
    I support inheritance taxes. If someone gets money themselves then they have proven that they can invest it well. However, there is no reason that the people who recieve the inheritance money would be any better then anyone else. So we might as well reduce everyone's normal tax burdon.

    Also, it is not fair for someone to get all of the advantages in life just because they were close to a rich person. People's skills should be the most of the determinant of their wealth as an adult.

  5. #135
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Come now! The rational analysis will identify the financial class as the true "parasites." I've already discussed "the role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation" elsewhere, which well identifies the lack of legitimate effort or just gains in the vast majority of that aggregate capital accumulation by the financial class.
    I'm curious to know what you find is a "legitimate effort" or "just gain".

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Considering their ultimate idleness, they serve little purpose other than provision of capital
    So what non-idleness must be met to satisfy your demands else you believe it "justified" to take their wealth for more "purposeful" means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    which would be more efficiently accomplished through their dispossession and collectivization of the means of production. And as I always say, a picture speaks a thousand words!

    Because we all know:
    1) attaining wealth is easy and only gets easier the more you make.
    2) managing wealth is easy and only gets easier the more you have.
    3) perpetuating your wealth is easy and only gets easier the longer you have it.
    4) attaining more wealth once you have wealth is child play.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #136
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    It's an obvious reality that people will seek to perform as little work for as much money as possible, but the capitalist economy is ill-suited to deal with this because a sufficiently high rate of equilibrium unemployment is used as a disciplinary stick to prevent workers from shirking. Since involuntary unemployment is a wasted resource, external inefficiency is thus a necessary condition of internal efficiency in a capitalist economy.
    Yes, however, were we to get rid of Heath and Human Services and Social Security, the fiscal equation balances out quite nicely. If you produce nothing, you can consume only what other people choose to share with you. If there is no charity, than the unemployed worker will be forced to work harder in order to maintain employment, thus encouraging more productive citizens in a more productive society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    A socialist economy is able to secure both internal and external efficiency by maintaining full employment and instead creating a positive motivation for work through equitable distribution of firm profits among all the workers rather than owners separate from the workers. This is why the empirical literature does not support your speculation, and instead reflects the superior efficiency of worker-owned enterprises, particularly those subject to democratic management. For instance, we could refer to Doucouliagos's Worker participation and productivity in labor-managed and participatory capitalist firms: A meta-analysis. Consider the abstract:

    We are thus not only able to observe the positive link between workers' ownership and efficiency, but the augmentation of that positive link ensured by the establishment of workplace democracy. All in all, it's similarly rational to establish a socialism and thus extend democracy into the economic realm.
    I see no credibility whatsoever to the claim that worker-owned companies are in any way more efficient. It's utterly counter intuitive. Now, we'll see how GM does. That is a worker-owned company, in part. If GM becomes increasingly efficient and efficacious over the next twenty-five years, then maybe we'll have ourselves a real case study. But, human nature and every experience we have of it, demonstrates that people work harder the more invested and responsible they are for the product. So long as there is an inequality in self-motivation, character, and self-discipline, there will be more and less productive people, demanding an inequitable, uneven, but nevertheless fair, distribution of wealth. People that try to curb, manipulate, or condition human nature, simply by ignoring the obviousness of the truth, tend to do so at their own peril.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  7. #137
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I support inheritance taxes.
    Gee, that's a big surprise.

    Just think, the government didn't do anything to earn the money.

    The government didn't take any risks for it.

    It's not any part of the government's money.

    But you support the government stealing it from the people it belongs to.

    How wonderful of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    If someone gets money themselves then they have proven that they can invest it well.
    See any place in the Constitution that requires a person to prove they can accomplish something before their parents can give them money?

    Funny, I can't find it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    However, there is no reason that the people who recieve the inheritance money would be any better then anyone else.
    There's one absolute reason. It's not the government's money, it's the person who earned it's money. Unless that person writes a will giving the money away to greedy thieves who will strip his heirs of every penny they can grab, there's no reason to assume that person wants his money to go to the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    So we might as well reduce everyone's normal tax burdon.
    Easily done. Cut the tax rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Also, it is not fair
    Life's not fair. It's a ****in' bitch. Quit whining.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    for someone to get all of the advantages in life just because they were close to a rich person.
    Your momma didn't slap you enough to make you stop crying, I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    People's skills should be the most of the determinant of their wealth as an adult.
    I have this feeling you do not know the words to The Beatles "Taxman" but you sing "Kumbaya" in your sleep.

  8. #138
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Gee, that's a big surprise.

    Just think, the government didn't do anything to earn the money.

    The government didn't take any risks for it.

    It's not any part of the government's money.

    But you support the government stealing it from the people it belongs to.

    How wonderful of you.



    See any place in the Constitution that requires a person to prove they can accomplish something before their parents can give them money?

    Funny, I can't find it either.



    There's one absolute reason. It's not the government's money, it's the person who earned it's money. Unless that person writes a will giving the money away to greedy thieves who will strip his heirs of every penny they can grab, there's no reason to assume that person wants his money to go to the government.



    Easily done. Cut the tax rates.



    Life's not fair. It's a ****in' bitch. Quit whining.



    Your momma didn't slap you enough to make you stop crying, I see.



    I have this feeling you do not know the words to The Beatles "Taxman" but you sing "Kumbaya" in your sleep.
    Lol if your only responce is life isn't fair, when we can make it fair easily then your arguement makes no sense.

    It can be at the state level if you want to complain about Constitution issues. The state laws can be based on where the money was made, so people couldn't just change states before they die to protect their wealth.

    Have a good day

  9. #139
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Gee, that's a big surprise.

    Just think, the government didn't do anything to earn the money.

    The government didn't take any risks for it.

    It's not any part of the government's money.

    But you support the government stealing it from the people it belongs to.

    How wonderful of you.



    See any place in the Constitution that requires a person to prove they can accomplish something before their parents can give them money?

    Funny, I can't find it either.



    There's one absolute reason. It's not the government's money, it's the person who earned it's money. Unless that person writes a will giving the money away to greedy thieves who will strip his heirs of every penny they can grab, there's no reason to assume that person wants his money to go to the government.



    Easily done. Cut the tax rates.



    Life's not fair. It's a ****in' bitch. Quit whining.



    Your momma didn't slap you enough to make you stop crying, I see.



    I have this feeling you do not know the words to The Beatles "Taxman" but you sing "Kumbaya" in your sleep.
    Lol if your only responce is life isn't fair, when we can make it fair easily then you lose.

    It can be at the state level if you want to complain about Constitution issues. The state laws can be based on where the money was made, so people couldn't just change states before they die to protect their wealth.


    and if you don't have anything helpful to say then please don't respond to my posts. I don't really care about your wining about life.

  10. #140
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How?

    How are you merely stating my position?
    You espoused it, I simply repeated it.
    You are an IRS expanding, social engineering wingnut.

    You claimed the tax code wasn't too complex, shouldn't be scrapped, then a few lines later complained people were stupid about taxes... ROTFLMFAO.

    It's simply hilarious. You like pissing into the wind, giving yourself a golden shower I see.

    2) Is merely a side effect of complexity. Reforming the tax code will make it significently easier to understand. Again, reform, not scrap.

    3) The IRS actually is too small and underfunded.

    6) Taxes as a form of social policy isn't inherently a bad idea. Smoking costs the nation billions in healthcare and billions in lost productivity. Furthermore, tax as a social policy lead to renewable energy systems which are getting us off foreign fossil fuels.

    7) Your article is as ignorant as most people here about taxes. Marginal tax rates don't tell us much. What we want to look at is the effective tax rates.

    A bit of a primer. What our system does now is to encourage rich people to change how their get their income, not by working but by investing which IMO is actually pretty good as we need rich people to provide capital. By encouraging them to earn their money by passive methods we ensure that there will be large private capital reserves to fund new businesses and new ideas.
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