View Poll Results: Federal (Income) Tax. You Pick the Rate.

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  • 5%

    22 37.93%
  • 10%

    10 17.24%
  • 15%

    4 6.90%
  • 20%

    7 12.07%
  • 25%

    5 8.62%
  • 30%

    2 3.45%
  • 35%

    3 5.17%
  • 40%

    2 3.45%
  • 45%

    1 1.72%
  • 50% and higher

    2 3.45%
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Thread: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

  1. #121
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Don't you know that those people are poor because they are just lazy? Why shouldn't we just let lazy people drop dead in the street?
    Works for me. Much better than robbing productive people of their hard earned money to feed parasites.

    You got a pet tapeworm you care so much about? Fine, you feed him, okay?

  2. #122
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Works for me. Much better than robbing productive people of their hard earned money to feed parasites.

    You got a pet tapeworm you care so much about? Fine, you feed him, okay?
    Come now! The rational analysis will identify the financial class as the true "parasites." I've already discussed "the role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation" elsewhere, which well identifies the lack of legitimate effort or just gains in the vast majority of that aggregate capital accumulation by the financial class. Considering their ultimate idleness, they serve little purpose other than provision of capital, which would be more efficiently accomplished through their dispossession and collectivization of the means of production. And as I always say, a picture speaks a thousand words!


  3. #123
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Come now! The rational analysis will identify the financial class as the true "parasites." I've already discussed "the role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation" elsewhere, which well identifies the lack of legitimate effort or just gains in the vast majority of that aggregate capital accumulation by the financial class. Considering their ultimate idleness, they serve little purpose other than provision of capital, which would be more efficiently accomplished through their dispossession and collectivization of the means of production. And as I always say, a picture speaks a thousand words!

    ??? why do you want to hurt most people in the world???

    They need capitalism here to create the capital that can be invested in their economies. If you collectivize capital, then there is no efficent incentive to create more of it. We can't be greedy with our developed economies that don't really REQUIRE more wealth to satisfy us.

    How does the financial class function as "parasites" when they create more wealth for everyone else! wealth is not stagnant.

  4. #124
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    I voted 15% the paying of the tax should hurt some, enough that it gets the public's attention to what the goverment is spending on.

  5. #125
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    ??? why do you want to hurt most people in the world???

    They need capitalism here to create the capital that can be invested in their economies. If you collectivize capital, then there is no efficent incentive to create more of it. We can't be greedy with our developed economies that don't really REQUIRE more wealth to satisfy us.
    That's far from being accurate. Establishing workers' ownership and management of firms will ensure a strong motivation to work, due to the equitable distribution of profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    How does the financial class function as "parasites" when they create more wealth for everyone else! wealth is not stagnant.
    Considering the oft-mentioned role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation, their role is typically that of "possessing" wealth rather than independently creating it.

  6. #126
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    If I had to choose a percentage I would begin at 25% and work towards lowering it in the future. Of course we need to move from big government to small government.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  7. #127
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's far from being accurate. Establishing workers' ownership and management of firms will ensure a strong motivation to work, due to the equitable distribution of profits.
    I can tell you straight up, I will not work under such conditions. So, I'm at least one person who would not be interested in the equitable distribution of profits. I want to be paid according to MY productivity, not yours. I'm not going to work my butt off while others benefit from my labor. I'll work as much as the laziest bastard there, so that whatever my share may be, I'll be getting the better value. I would feel disgusted behaving that way, but the alternative would be to work hard and not be paid fairly for my efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Considering the oft-mentioned role of intergenerational transfers in aggregate capital accumulation, their role is typically that of "possessing" wealth rather than independently creating it.
    Hogwash. No one wants to just keep their money. They want to invest it so that they can have MORE money.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  8. #128
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    I can tell you straight up, I will not work under such conditions. So, I'm at least one person who would not be interested in the equitable distribution of profits. I want to be paid according to MY productivity, not yours. I'm not going to work my butt off while others benefit from my labor. I'll work as much as the laziest bastard there, so that whatever my share may be, I'll be getting the better value. I would feel disgusted behaving that way, but the alternative would be to work hard and not be paid fairly for my efforts.
    Then, as an incompetent/irresponsible worker, you would be fired. Worker-owned firms would not be able to maintain their stellar record of improved efficiency over the conventional capitalist firm if they retained those who were able but not willing to work.

  9. #129
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Then, as an incompetent/irresponsible worker, you would be fired. Worker-owned firms would not be able to maintain their stellar record of improved efficiency over the conventional capitalist firm if they retained those who were able but not willing to work.
    Really? Do you think it would be in the interest of the workers to create such insecure employment for themselves? After all, you would not be able to say, for them, how much they would need to work. You and I would only be one vote a piece. And, judging by your reaction, you and I would want to have as much opportunity to get rid of incompetent or lazy people, in order to increase productivity. But most people don't care about productivity. They want as much money for as little work as possible, and if the workers run the show, that is precisely what you will get. I'm not sure why you are expecting a different, more rational response.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  10. #130
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    Really? Do you think it would be in the interest of the workers to create such insecure employment for themselves? After all, you would not be able to say, for them, how much they would need to work. You and I would only be one vote a piece. And, judging by your reaction, you and I would want to have as much opportunity to get rid of incompetent or lazy people, in order to increase productivity. But most people don't care about productivity. They want as much money for as little work as possible, and if the workers run the show, that is precisely what you will get. I'm not sure why you are expecting a different, more rational response.
    It's an obvious reality that people will seek to perform as little work for as much money as possible, but the capitalist economy is ill-suited to deal with this because a sufficiently high rate of equilibrium unemployment is used as a disciplinary stick to prevent workers from shirking. Since involuntary unemployment is a wasted resource, external inefficiency is thus a necessary condition of internal efficiency in a capitalist economy. A socialist economy is able to secure both internal and external efficiency by maintaining full employment and instead creating a positive motivation for work through equitable distribution of firm profits among all the workers rather than owners separate from the workers. This is why the empirical literature does not support your speculation, and instead reflects the superior efficiency of worker-owned enterprises, particularly those subject to democratic management. For instance, we could refer to Doucouliagos's Worker participation and productivity in labor-managed and participatory capitalist firms: A meta-analysis. Consider the abstract:

    Using meta-analytic techniques, the author synthesizes the results of 43 published studies to investigate the effects on productivity of various forms of worker participation: worker participation in decision making; mandated codetermination; profit sharing; worker ownership (employee stock ownership or individual worker ownership of the firm's assets); and collective ownership of assets (workers' collective ownership of reserves over which they have no individual claim). He finds that codetermination laws are negatively associated with productivity, but profit sharing, worker ownership, and worker participation in decision making are all positively associated with productivity. All the observed correlations are stronger among labor-managed firms (firms owned and controlled by workers) than among participatory capitalist firms (firms adopting one or more participation schemes involving employees, such as ESOPs or quality circles).
    We are thus not only able to observe the positive link between workers' ownership and efficiency, but the augmentation of that positive link ensured by the establishment of workplace democracy. All in all, it's similarly rational to establish a socialism and thus extend democracy into the economic realm.

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