View Poll Results: Federal (Income) Tax. You Pick the Rate.

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  • 5%

    22 37.93%
  • 10%

    10 17.24%
  • 15%

    4 6.90%
  • 20%

    7 12.07%
  • 25%

    5 8.62%
  • 30%

    2 3.45%
  • 35%

    3 5.17%
  • 40%

    2 3.45%
  • 45%

    1 1.72%
  • 50% and higher

    2 3.45%
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Thread: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

  1. #91
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    There really isn't an idealogically pure answer to this question. However, I do think that because we have a society that needs cohesion, it is the duty and even the privilege of every man to contribute his best to society and its upkeep.
    It's the duty of every man, regardless of his economic station, to get off his dead ass and work to support himself and his family.

    That's it.

    It's not a privilege to work and have your wages and earnings stolen to support the parasitic lumps who won't work. Nor is it a privilege to be robbed to finance programs that aren't allowed by the Constitution.

    A person being mugged on the street is contributing his best to society, but no one feels that it's a privilege. Wrapping it up in a red-tape bow and spraying perfume on it doesn't make it any nicer.

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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It's the duty of every man, regardless of his economic station, to get off his dead ass and work to support himself and his family.

    That's it.

    It's not a privilege to work and have your wages and earnings stolen to support the parasitic lumps who won't work. Nor is it a privilege to be robbed to finance programs that aren't allowed by the Constitution.

    A person being mugged on the street is contributing his best to society, but no one feels that it's a privilege. Wrapping it up in a red-tape bow and spraying perfume on it doesn't make it any nicer.

    I am against most federal "welfare" but the federal government should spend money on other things that aren't just barebones spending. That will require something above a 10% flat income tax.

    Public education is crucial, because if a state will try to fund its own public education then the poor districts will not have the funding that they need. The local level pays for around 70% of all public education. That amount in $ can be very low then if the district is poor.

    What people deserve is an education and job based on their SKILLS and not their parent's money.

    I just can't understand how anyone can support poor students not getting a good education because of their situation. That isn't the free market where people are rewarded on their abilities, that is fuedalism. Even Ron Paul's vouchers for everyone will require a much higher income tax burdon then 10% or some other libertopia ideas.

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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    No private property, so no taxation. Instead all wages paid by the state after services are accounted for.
    "His (Che Guevara) life is the story of our era's most perfect man" - Jean Paul Sartre

    FTQ

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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    I think a 0% income tax is more than enough.

    I would be more than happy with paying an extra federal tax on everything I buy. Maybe 5% on all transactions or sales would be more than enough for the federal government to operate on.

    It would have a couple of extra benefits to the people and the government. No more IRS. It would not be needed at all. The fed bankroll would expand as the economy does well etc.

    Maybe it makes to much sense for our government.


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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I am against most federal "welfare" but the federal government should spend money on other things that aren't just barebones spending. That will require something above a 10% flat income tax.
    The Federal Government is allowed to spend money on...

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Oh! Look! You don't see "Socialist Security" listed there. You can't find "Nationalized Healthcare" anywhere, either. Public Education isn't allowed, either. How strange. It seems that almost the entire liberal/socialst construction of Gigantic Federal Nanny Government....isn't friggin' allowed by the Constitution.

    And no, it's not covered by the two words "general welfare", that is not what that phrase was for.

    THE STATES....they're supposed to pay for all that if their citizens are stupid enough to want a permanent baby sittter armed with guns to make the baby behave.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    What people deserve is an education and job based on their SKILLS and not their parent's money.
    What people deserve is the opportunity to live their own lives without carrying the burden of a million parasites holding them down, especially since the parasites are breaking the law by stealing money from them.

    What the Constitution promises them is that the federal and state governments are limited to certain mutually exclusive arenas, and under no circumstances should the federal share of this burden be anywhere near as huge as it is today. 44% of the federal tax dollars paid in California NEVER comes back to the state. That's just flat out wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    [B]I just can't understand how anyone can support poor students not getting a good education because of their situation.
    It's called, "life's a female dog and then she dies".

    It's also called "not my problem, but you can use your own money to help others all you want." For some reason socialists absolutely REFUSE to take this path. They insist on pointing guns at total strangers and demanding money from them to do "good" works. Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    That isn't the free market where people are rewarded on their abilities, that is fuedalism.
    Okay, now we know you don't know what feudalism is.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Even Ron Paul's vouchers for everyone will require a much higher income tax burdon then 10% or some other libertopia ideas.
    "Vouchers"? That still doesn't take the chains off the earning classes, so they're no good.

  6. #96
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Castro View Post
    No private property, so no taxation. Instead all wages paid by the state after services are accounted for.
    commy :P :P

    If we became communist then the world economy wouldn't grow fast enough to help the poor. Don't be selfish with your developed nation. Think about working people all over the world.

    We also need a transfer culture to get to no taxes, you should read Marx's view on that.

  7. #97
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The Federal Government is allowed to spend money on...




    Oh! Look! You don't see "Socialist Security" listed there. You can't find "Nationalized Healthcare" anywhere, either. Public Education isn't allowed, either. How strange. It seems that almost the entire liberal/socialst construction of Gigantic Federal Nanny Government....isn't friggin' allowed by the Constitution.

    And no, it's not covered by the two words "general welfare", that is not what that phrase was for.
    Last time I checked, we are talking about what SHOULD happen. Not what is Constitutional. If you just want to debate what is Constitutional then there is no federal politics.

    That would be a great political forum... being debating their specific military budgets and wages for politicians.

    THE STATES....they're supposed to pay for all that if their citizens are stupid enough to want a permanent baby sittter armed with guns to make the baby behave.
    What do you think I want???

    Of course that is a state issue.

    What people deserve is the opportunity to live their own lives without carrying the burden of a million parasites holding them down, especially since the parasites are breaking the law by stealing money from them.
    Thats your view, but most people would agree that people's wealth should be based on their abilities and drive, not the wealth of their family. Free market, not merchantilism.

    What the Constitution promises them is that the federal and state governments are limited to certain mutually exclusive arenas, and under no circumstances should the federal share of this burden be anywhere near as huge as it is today. 44% of the federal tax dollars paid in California NEVER comes back to the state. That's just flat out wrong.
    I completely agree. Liberals should support state's rights because that would save them money.


    It's called, "life's a female dog and then she dies".

    It's also called "not my problem, but you can use your own money to help others all you want." For some reason socialists absolutely REFUSE to take this path. They insist on pointing guns at total strangers and demanding money from them to do "good" works. Why is that?
    If thats your answer, then check-mate.

    Life shouldn't be like that.


    Why do people think something like that? It isn't even economic, because economically, people's wealth should be based on their work. Instead, it is just some warped free market ideology that removes the essence of hardwork and a fair reward.

    Okay, now we know you don't know what feudalism is.



    "Vouchers"? That still doesn't take the chains off the earning classes, so they're no good.
    Last edited by nerv14; 05-12-09 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #98
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Last time I checked, we are talking about what SHOULD happen.
    Last time I checked, I am talking about what should happen.

    What should happen is that the law should be obeyed.

    The Constitution is the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    If you just want to debate what is Constitutional then there is no federal politics.
    Well, that's an ignorant statement. There's plenty of federal politics....but it's constrained by the Constitution. What a weird idea, that. I mean, who ever heard of limited government, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    That would be a great political forum... being debating their specific military budgets and wages for politicians.
    You mean people would be able to pay more attention to what the theives in their state capitols are doing to them?

    What a shame that would be. I mean, just imagine what would happen in California if the people were allowed to keep for themselves that 45% of the federal tax that doesn't come back to the state, and if they had more time to pay attention to Sacramento's shenannigans, too. I mean, California might be solvent right now.

    That would be sooo terrible, wouldn't it?

    Of course, you're forgetting that Washington sets immigration policy. Gee, if the corrupt lawmakers weren't busy trying to figure out how to get their peice of the Bailout Pie, maybe they'd spend some time discussing the invasion of the US by Mexico?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    What do you think I want???
    Socialism.

    That's the goal of all who see unlimted federal government as their savior.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Thats your view, but most people would agree that people's wealth should be based on their abilities and drive, not the wealth of their family. Free market, not merchantilism.
    Okay, we can add your ignorance of both "free market" and "mercantilism" to our list of things you're not too sure about.

    The free market says that a person's property is his to use as he pleases to engage in economic activity. That means the wealthy don't get taxed merely because they have money. It also means the people without money don't have as many options open to them. Boo hoo hoo.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I completely agree. Liberals should support state's rights because that would save them money.
    The last thing liberals care about is saving money. It's not their money to begin with, so why should they care. They just print more.


    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    If thats your answer, then check-mate.

    Life shouldn't be like that.
    The realist deals with life as it is. Ostriches say it shouldn't be that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Why do people think something like that? It isn't even economic, because economically, people's wealth should be based on their work. Instead, it is just some warped free market ideology that removes the essence of hardwork and a fair reward.
    Yeah, as if they get to define what "fair" is. It's not fair for the state to steal the inheritance of the millionaire's son, that's certain. The state did nothing to earn the money and it's only claim to it is it's guns.

  9. #99
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Scarecrow...

    Firstly, we must ballance how "fair" it is for people to be forced to give money to the poor, and talented poor individuals having less opportunities then dumb rich people. They contridict sometimes, so we need to look at it on a case by case basis.


    There is something called an "amendment" to the Constitution which would allow for more enumerated powers. Therefore, it goes without saying that we would need those to make public education Constitutional.

    But no... a "limited government" has already been spelled out by most people so there is not much debate in that. A military, a strict interpretation of civil liberties and nothing else. Not much debate in that.


    There are many ideas about how a free primary and highschool education system can work. If you want to debate the merits of those programs after an amendment to allow them was passed, then that would be great.

    It isn't productive to just decry all other ideas as Unconstitutional, when that can be changed.

    --------------------------

    This is off topic, so we may want to go to another thread...

    I have an idea about public education that can work, and there is another idea of a "conservative" free education system in another thread.
    You should check those out.


    My idea is with increased teacher wages, weak teacher's unions and more charter schools.

    The more "conservative idea" is with vouchers for all students, transparency in private schools and schools can not be paid to accept students.

    What do you think about those? If a Constitutional amendment to allow them was passed of course. With both of those systems, it is possble that student's education and later jobs can be based on their abilities and not on the wealth of their parents.
    Last edited by nerv14; 05-13-09 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #100
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    Re: Federal Income Tax. You Pick the Rate.

    Don't forget that the government is tightening its hold on its people by taxing anyone who leaves the country for 5 to 10 years if they make more than $124k a year or are worth more than about 500k. All to stop the evil "tax evaders".
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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