View Poll Results: Should the government tax bonuses paid to executives of bailed-out companies?

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    10 38.46%
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Thread: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

  1. #11
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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Please reference the section of the constitution that defines this as a role of government.
    The Supreme Court has ruled the wholesale nationalization of the economy is unconstitutional. However, temporary nationalization of companies when it has been in the national interest has never been successfully challenged in the courts. As the federal courts are the ultimate arbiters of what is and is not constitutional, until they rule that temporary nationalization is unconstitutional, it is for all intents and purposes constitutional.
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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The Supreme Court has ruled the wholesale nationalization of the economy is unconstitutional. However, temporary nationalization of companies when it has been in the national interest has never been successfully challenged in the courts. As the federal courts are the ultimate arbiters of what is and is not constitutional, until they rule that temporary nationalization is unconstitutional, it is for all intents and purposes constitutional.



    What companies have we "temporailly nationalized" and link to court cases proving your contention.


    Still this is not an answer to my question:

    Please reference the section of the constitution that defines this as a role of government.


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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    As the federal courts are the ultimate arbiters of what is and is not constitutional, until they rule that temporary nationalization is unconstitutional, it is for all intents and purposes constitutional.
    There is a distinct difference between "constitutional" and "not yet ruled unconstitional".

    The former is a positive, active declaration by a court.
    The latter is an excuse to do whatever you want until told you cannot.

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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What companies have we "temporailly nationalized" and link to court cases proving your contention.


    Still this is not an answer to my question:

    Please reference the section of the constitution that defines this as a role of government.

    We have a long history of nationalizing companies:

    The truth is that the United States has a long and overlooked history of "nationalization," starting with the Northwest Ordinance of 1789, and then the Louisiana Purchase of 1803. Both acts put vast amounts of American territory in the public domain, at a time when land was far more valuable than currency. Even today, a third of all the land in the United States is still publicly owned, as are the continental shelves along our coasts, the airspace above us, not to mention hundreds of thousands of miles of roads and trillions of dollars' worth of other public infrastructure so essential to our private economy.

    In World War I, the nations' railroads were successfully nationalized to sustain the war effort. In the 1930s, the Reconstruction Finance Corp. bought millions of shares in over 6,000 banks in order to rescue them. During World War II, government took control of the economy's entire pricing system for consumer goods—a more complex job than taking over several big banks—and did quite well at it, most economists agree. In the 1980s, the Resolution Trust Corp. seized hundreds of failed savings and loans in order to save the system. After 9/11, the government effectively nationalized the private-security firms at airports, and replaced them with the federal TSA.
    History: Why Nationalization Isn't Un-American | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com

    The only constitutional challenges were with the wholesale nationalization of entire sectors of the economy with FDR's National Recovery Administration and Truman's attempt to completely nationalize the entire steel industry.

    Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. et al. v. Sawyer.

    Schechter Poultry Corporation
    V. United States
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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    We have a long history of nationalizing companies:



    History: Why Nationalization Isn't Un-American | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com

    The only constitutional challenges were with the wholesale nationalization of entire sectors of the economy with FDR's National Recovery Administration and Truman's attempt to completely nationalize the entire steel industry.

    Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. et al. v. Sawyer.

    Schechter Poultry Corporation
    V. United States

    Thanks for the information.

    Still does not answer my question though,


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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    To cite the Constitution itself:

    U.S. Constitution - Amendment 5

    Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    There is nothing that says that a company cannot be nationalized. We just have to compensate the owners properly when doing so. If the U.S. government buys a majority stake in a company, then thats exactly what they did.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    To cite the Constitution itself:

    U.S. Constitution - Amendment 5

    Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    There is nothing that says that a company cannot be nationalized. We just have to compensate the owners properly when doing so. If the U.S. government buys a majority stake in a company, then thats exactly what they did.


    Are you suggesting this is covered under "eminent domain"?


    What "just compensation" will AIG recieve if we own it?


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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Are you suggesting this is covered under "eminent domain"?


    What "just compensation" will AIG recieve if we own it?
    Yes, it covers eminent domain and nationalization (which is really just another form of eminent domain).

    The "just compensation" was the purchasing of a majority stake in AIG.

    We have temporarily nationalized companies when it was in the United States interest since our founding. Its as American and as constitutional as apple pie.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes, it covers eminent domain and nationalization (which is really just another form of eminent domain).

    The "just compensation" was the purchasing of a majority stake in AIG.

    We have temporarily nationalized companies when it was in the United States interest since our founding. Its as American and as constitutional as apple pie.


    I disagree. I think the role stops at "regulate interstate commerce"....

    And since its founding? Purchasing land I argue is not the same as taking over an Ikea.


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  10. #20
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    Re: Executive Bonuses Taxed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I disagree. I think the role stops at "regulate interstate commerce"....

    And since its founding? Purchasing land I argue is not the same as taking over an Ikea.
    Property is property. Regardless of whether its land, a railroad, or a bank. In the end, when the government temporarily nationalizes a company, they are putting property to public use.

    There is no point in arguing this further as the courts have consistently sided with my argument on this issue, and we have a long history of doing so as I have pointed out in prior posts.

    If you don't want the government to be able to temporarily nationalize companies when its in the national interest, then you need to convince enough people to get a constitutional amendment that restricts the governments ability to do so.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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