View Poll Results: Is drug testing a violation of the 4th Amendment?

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  • Yes

    4 8.70%
  • No

    39 84.78%
  • Other (explain)

    3 6.52%
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Thread: Drug Testing

  1. #81
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    I already explained the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was a response to you.

    Rivrrat also shares my views and gave her own explanation of the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was also a response to you.

    Did you just miss those posts?


    Oh, I guess I've never smelled or noticed what you're describing. But my point still stands. If a company is concerned about testing for marijuana but not equally concerned about testing for alcohol and traffic violations, that is hypocritical.
    What is your definition of hypocritical?
    Last edited by TOJ; 04-07-09 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #82
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    What is your definitation of hypocritical?
    They're confusing hypocrisy with discrimination. See my last post.


  3. #83
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I get buzz from aspirin. But I do drink water because I like the way it makes me feel. I drink pepsi for the same reason. And koolaid. And wine.


    Well you have every right to think that, even if it's flat out wrong.

    They are no more "stupid" and have no more of a "problem" than anyone else who uses legal drugs.
    You have your opinion and I have mine. Mine is right though.

  4. #84
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    They're confusing hypocrisy with discrimination. See my last post.

    Too much MJ, ya 'spose?

    .

  5. #85
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    Re: Drug Testing

    "Hypocrisy

    1:
    a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion"

    hypocrisy - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Smoking marijuana is illegal.
    Speeding on the road is illegal.

    If you test for marijuana on the sole basis that it's illegal, but you don't test for speeding tickets on the same basis, that is hypocritical. If you test for marijuana on the sole basis of safety or cognitive fitness, but you don't test for alcohol on the same basis, that is hypocritical. Quite simply, if you selectively apply an arbitrary standard to marijuana that you don't also consistently apply to similar* activities, that is hypocritical. And yes, it's discriminatory too.

    *If you can show why (for the purposes of common employment) marijuana and speeding aren't similar, or that marijuana and alcohol aren't similar, then you could disprove my assertion of hypocrisy. But I don't see any logical reason why they should be treated any differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ
    Too much MJ, ya 'spose?
    Ad-hominem ignored.

  6. #86
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You have your opinion and I have mine. Mine is right though.
    So, is your reasoning for thinking they are 'stupid' and have a 'problem' based solely on the fact that said actions (using illegal drugs) are illegal? If so, can you resolve the inconsistency of said thinking when pretty much all of us engage in illegal activities at some point in time, and many of us on a regular basis?

  7. #87
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    If you test for marijuana on the sole basis that it's illegal, but you don't test for speeding tickets on the same basis, that is hypocritical. If you test for marijuana on the sole basis of safety or cognitive fitness, but you don't test for alcohol on the same basis, that is hypocritical. Quite simply, if you selectively apply an arbitrary standard to marijuana that you don't also consistently apply to similar* activities, that is hypocritical. And yes, it's discriminatory too.
    I won't try to argue with you whether it's fair or unfair that some drugs are tested for and others are not. That's not the issue for me. Frankly, I don't care.

    I'm strictly pointing out that your characterization of this as 'hypocrisy' is incorrect.

    Your argument is that companies are hypocritical by not applying the same standard to alcohol that they apply to marijuana. That simply isn't a case of hypocrisy. One is legal. The other is not. And even if that distinction didn't exist... the charge of hypocrisy wouldn't fly. If a company instituted a drug testing program for illegal opiates, but not illegal hallucinogens, and stated that as their policy... that would not be hypocritical.

    ..

  8. #88
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I won't try to argue with you whether it's fair or unfair that some drugs are tested for and others are not. That's not the issue for me. Frankly, I don't care.

    I'm strictly pointing out that your characterization of this as 'hypocrisy' is incorrect.
    Ok, thanks for the clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Your argument is that companies are hypocritical by not applying the same standard to alcohol that they apply to marijuana. That simply isn't a case of hypocrisy. One is legal. The other is not.
    I said it's hypocritical if they test for MJ for safety reasons (not legality) while not also testing for alcohol out of safety reasons. It would not be hypocritical to test for MJ for legal reasons and then not test alcohol (because you're right, those are not comparable when the reasons are legal). Just to clarify what I mean -

    Hypocritical:

    Testing for marijuana out of safety reasons, but not testing for alcohol.
    Testing for marijuana out of legal reasons, but not checking for parking tickets.

    Not hypocritical:

    Testing for marijuana out of safety reasons, but not checking for parking tickets.
    Testing for marijuana out of legal reasons, but not testing for alcohol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    And even if that distinction didn't exist... the charge of hypocrisy wouldn't fly. If a company instituted a drug testing program for illegal opiates, but not illegal hallucinogens, and stated that as their policy... that would not be hypocritical...
    I don't understand why not. That sounds like a perfect example of hypocrisy to me. Testing for X because (and only because) it's illegal, but not testing for Y even though it's illegal, seems like a perfect example of hypocrisy to me. Because not testing for Y is essentially acting in contradiction to the beliefs established by testing for X. Unless there's some outside factor that's specific to a particular job, of course.

    Maybe hypocrisy is the wrong term, and "double-standard" is more appropriate? Even though I think they are close cousins of each other in the end.

    What would be a better example of hypocrisy then?
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 04-07-09 at 11:56 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Maybe hypocrisy is the wrong term, and "double-standard" is more appropriate? Even though I think they are close cousins of each other in the end.
    Double-Standard doesn't really fit either. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard"]Definition of Double Standard[/ame]

    In the case of drug testing... it would be a double-standard if they tested all employees for drugs, with the exception of executives. One standard for one group. A different standard for another group. That's a double standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit
    What would be a better example of hypocrisy then?
    A better example of hypocrisy would be a company that stated 'We have zero tolerance for cocaine usage and will fire any employee who tests positive for cocaine,' which then knowingly hires cocaine addicts. That would be hypocrisy.

    ..

  10. #90
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    So, is your reasoning for thinking they are 'stupid' and have a 'problem' based solely on the fact that said actions (using illegal drugs) are illegal? If so, can you resolve the inconsistency of said thinking when pretty much all of us engage in illegal activities at some point in time, and many of us on a regular basis?
    If they need the buzz as you put it, they have a problem. If they don't need the buzz, they are stupid for doing something illegal and potientially harmful to their career and arguably, in the case of hard drugs, to their health.

    We don't want the potiential problems and, in our case, have no reason to take the risk.

    .

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