View Poll Results: Is drug testing a violation of the 4th Amendment?

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  • Yes

    4 8.70%
  • No

    39 84.78%
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    3 6.52%
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Thread: Drug Testing

  1. #71
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    LOL thanks for the mouthwash tip!

    I would think if you smell like alcohol the next day, then you're probably still under the influence to some extent and pose a hazard on the job. On the other hand, marijuana can be detected up to 30 days after consumption, long after any intoxicating effects have worn off. My point is, the detection of marijuana is not evidence that the person was actually under any dehabilitating effects of marijuana at the time of the test. It's not evidence that they were smoking on the job or came to work high. So if a company is going to piss test me on a Thursday and fire me for a joint that I smoked on the previous Saturday, believing that they are thwarting some sort of hazard or liability, then there's no reason why they shouldn't be equally concerned about employees who drank alcohol over the weekend too. And if they're not, it's hypocritical.


    1. Technically drugs are not illegal, they are illicit. (Illegal to have without a licence, which is never issued.)

    2. If a company wants to verify their employees' integrity and respect for stupid laws, that's fine, but it's not the employer's responsibility to enforce laws.

    3. This argument is circular logic because the only reason why companies drug test in the first place is because they're illicit.


    And marijuana can show up 30 days after consumption, which I would consider almost as much a false positive as your examples because it says nothing about the state or capacity of the person while actually on the job.
    NO, alcohol has no lasting odor, it is the other ingredients that you smell the next day, and those ingredients are not intoxicating...
    The only way to tell by smell, is when they barf in your car....
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  2. #72
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Everyone drinks, smokes, snorts, eats, etc because they like the way it makes them feel. They like the way it tastes (that's a sensation... that qualifies as liking the way it makes them feel). They like the fact it relaxes them. They like the buzz. They like that it wakes them up. Whatever their reasons are for drinking coffee, or alcohol, or snorting lines, or eating good food, or smoking joints, or popping pills, or taking allergy medicine... they all boil down to they like the way it makes them feel. There's really no other reason.
    If by buzz you mean intoxication, I've never gotten a buzz from drinking a glass of water.

    As such, I don't get why you separate out certain people who like the way it makes them feel 'this' from others who like the way it makes them feel 'that'. Drinking alcohol is drinking alcohol, smoking pot is smoking pot, drinking coffee is drinking coffee, taking pain meds is taking pain meds. Reasons for doing it are quite irrelevant.


    As you should. And you should do the same with other drugs too.


    As is your prerogative. I wouldn't give a **** if you said you only hire white people with red hair. That would be your prerogative, as far as I'm concerned. But don't pretend it's because you really think one group is somehow smarter than the other. At least be honest about your reasons for discrimination and that they're based on stereotypes and ignorance.
    I think the drug laws are stupid. I also think those who use street drugs are either stupid or have a problem.

    .

  3. #73
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Do you apply those standards to alcohol, tobacco, paxil, xanax, ambien, diabetes medication... all drugs or just the ones you happen to find offensive?
    I made my point as clear as I could, if you are getting something ELSE out of it, get your head clear and re-read my posts...
    Oracle of Utah
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  4. #74
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    It's not illegal, but it is hypocritical.
    What's hypocritical? Not sure i understand your point.


  5. #75
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    If by buzz you mean intoxication, I've never gotten a buzz from drinking a glass of water.

    I think the drug laws are stupid. I also think those who use street drugs are either stupid or have a problem.

    .
    Life is hard enough without handicapping yourself by using drugs that make you unemployable.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    If by buzz you mean intoxication, I've never gotten a buzz from drinking a glass of water.
    I get buzz from aspirin. But I do drink water because I like the way it makes me feel. I drink pepsi for the same reason. And koolaid. And wine.

    I think the drug laws are stupid. I also think those who use street drugs are either stupid or have a problem.

    .
    Well you have every right to think that, even if it's flat out wrong.

    They are no more "stupid" and have no more of a "problem" than anyone else who uses legal drugs.

  7. #77
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    Re: Drug Testing

    When I worked for PeteLien&Sons as a forklift operator, we were allowed to come to our shift or back from lunch with a little booze on our breath. As long as we were never impaired (legally drunk) we were good to go.

    We weren't allowed to drink on shift, but I soon learned that was because of the chemical hazard and distraction of actually taking a swig while you had a load in the air than consuming alcohol while operation equipment.

    Now smoking was another issue.

    Sure no one was allowed to smoke on the grounds (there were no "designated smoking arias" either) due to flammable chemicals, but they flat-out would not higher anyone who admitted to smoking within the last 10 years. If they found out you lied or if you took up smoking, even if only at home, you were fired on-the-spot.

    The reason being heath care costs. The company did not want to have to pay it's contribution of a smoker's health care policy.

    As for pre-employment drug screening: OSHA requires potential employees of certain professions to undergo a full physical. In my case, my job required me to use a respirator as well as various tools and equipment which could cause chronic injury, so I got the physical and the blood work that came with it, including a drug screening.

    PeteLein&Sons never did random testing while I was there, though, precisely because random testing creates distrust. I admire their safety incentive programs and their swift action when an occasional accident did occur.

    I learned from them that it's more important to have a corporate culture where everyone supports everyone else being safe then to threaten an anvil dropping on anyone who violate the letter of the policy.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 07:05 PM.

  8. #78
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Mind explaining how it is hypocritical?
    I already explained the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was a response to you.

    Rivrrat also shares my views and gave her own explanation of the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was also a response to you.

    Did you just miss those posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    NO, alcohol has no lasting odor, it is the other ingredients that you smell the next day, and those ingredients are not intoxicating...
    Oh, I guess I've never smelled or noticed what you're describing. But my point still stands. If a company is concerned about testing for marijuana but not equally concerned about testing for alcohol and traffic violations, that is hypocritical.
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 04-07-09 at 07:44 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Did you just miss those posts?
    I know this was addressed to another poster but I'll comment just the same. I don't see how you've explained 'hypocrisy' in any of this.

    The definition of 'hypocrisy' is, basically, preaching one thing while doing another. It would be hypocritical, for example, if a company said they allowed no drug use but then did, in fact, hire known drug users.

    To target one illegal activity but not others is not hypocritical. It's discriminatory. Two very different things.

    You may or may not believe that companies should discriminate between drug use or speeding tickets. But doing so does not make them hypocrites.

    ..

  10. #80
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    I already explained the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was a response to you.

    Rivrrat also shares my views and gave her own explanation of the hypocricy in this post (Drug Testing), which was also a response to you.

    Did you just miss those posts?


    Oh, I guess I've never smelled or noticed what you're describing. But my point still stands. If a company is concerned about testing for marijuana but not equally concerned about testing for alcohol and traffic violations, that is hypocritical.
    What is your definitation of hypocritical?

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