View Poll Results: Is drug testing a violation of the 4th Amendment?

Voters
46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    4 8.70%
  • No

    39 84.78%
  • Other (explain)

    3 6.52%
Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 135

Thread: Drug Testing

  1. #41
    Guru
    Binary_Digit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Last Seen
    08-24-16 @ 01:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,413

    Re: Drug Testing

    I agree the 4th has nothing to do with this, but I think it's hypocritical for a company to test for MJ out of "safety" reasons, but not test for alcohol.

  2. #42
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    09-12-16 @ 08:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,513

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    I agree the 4th has nothing to do with this, but I think it's hypocritical for a company to test for MJ out of "safety" reasons, but not test for alcohol.
    They do, and it is simple. If you smell like you have been drinking, you get to go get tested. A coworker had a few beers at night, and still smelled a bit the next morning. She was told by a member of security that they could smell alcohol. Thing is, you can't. The smell is from other ingredients, and that smell persists long after the effect of the alchohol is gone. The smell comes out your pores as well as breath.
    I could tell one of my coworkers, in the morning, whether he had beer or wine with his evening meal. Different smells......it was easy to a teetotaler like me....
    If you drink at night, shower in the morning, use cologne or perfume, and use mouthwash...
    Don't drink the mouthwash, some of it is 40 proof....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  3. #43
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Is mandatory drug testing as part of entrance to a job, or random drug testing while on the job, a violation of the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure?

    Explain your answer.
    It's not a violation because you agree to it in order to receive something from a private entity which you are not entitled to under the law.

    Having said that, even though drug testing is not a civil rights issue, I still think pre-employment drug screening should be don away with. Pre-employment drug screening has not proven itself to be an effective way to detect or detour drug abuse. Also, pre-employment drug screening frames the nature of the professional relationship between employer and employee as one of distrust.

    Drug testing in schools has not proven itself to be an effective deterrent, either.

    I fully support drug testing in the event of an industrial accident, because at that time there is reason to suspect drug abuse, however random and pre-employment drug tests are ineffective if not harmful to various relationships.

    [ame=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=study+finds+that+drug+testing&aq=f& oq=]study finds that drug testing - Google Search[/ame]

  4. #44
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Is mandatory drug testing as part of entrance to a job, or random drug testing while on the job, a violation of the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure?
    The 4th Amendment applies only to government searches. Moreover, contract law undeniably grants to the employer to include such testing as a precondition of employment, making the employee's acceptance of employment an acceptance of such testing as part of the contract. Per the contract, consent to the testing is necessarily assumed. Thus not only is there no violation of the fourth amendment, there also is no violation of any putative right of privacy.

  5. #45
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    I agree the 4th has nothing to do with this, but I think it's hypocritical for a company to test for MJ out of "safety" reasons, but not test for alcohol.
    MJ is an illegal substance, alcohol is not. Moreover, random alcohol testing poses a challenge, as alcohol can show up as a result of medical conditions such as diabetes, as well as from taking certain over-the-counter (i.e., legal) medications, even if one does not consume any form of spirits.

  6. #46
    Guru
    Binary_Digit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Last Seen
    08-24-16 @ 01:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,413

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    They do, and it is simple. If you smell like you have been drinking, you get to go get tested. A coworker had a few beers at night, and still smelled a bit the next morning. She was told by a member of security that they could smell alcohol. Thing is, you can't. The smell is from other ingredients, and that smell persists long after the effect of the alchohol is gone. The smell comes out your pores as well as breath.
    I could tell one of my coworkers, in the morning, whether he had beer or wine with his evening meal. Different smells......it was easy to a teetotaler like me....
    If you drink at night, shower in the morning, use cologne or perfume, and use mouthwash...
    Don't drink the mouthwash, some of it is 40 proof....
    LOL thanks for the mouthwash tip!

    I would think if you smell like alcohol the next day, then you're probably still under the influence to some extent and pose a hazard on the job. On the other hand, marijuana can be detected up to 30 days after consumption, long after any intoxicating effects have worn off. My point is, the detection of marijuana is not evidence that the person was actually under any dehabilitating effects of marijuana at the time of the test. It's not evidence that they were smoking on the job or came to work high. So if a company is going to piss test me on a Thursday and fire me for a joint that I smoked on the previous Saturday, believing that they are thwarting some sort of hazard or liability, then there's no reason why they shouldn't be equally concerned about employees who drank alcohol over the weekend too. And if they're not, it's hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    MJ is an illegal substance, alcohol is not.
    1. Technically drugs are not illegal, they are illicit. (Illegal to have without a licence, which is never issued.)

    2. If a company wants to verify their employees' integrity and respect for stupid laws, that's fine, but it's not the employer's responsibility to enforce laws.

    3. This argument is circular logic because the only reason why companies drug test in the first place is because they're illicit.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    Moreover, random alcohol testing poses a challenge, as alcohol can show up as a result of medical conditions such as diabetes, as well as from taking certain over-the-counter (i.e., legal) medications, even if one does not consume any form of spirits.
    And marijuana can show up 30 days after consumption, which I would consider almost as much a false positive as your examples because it says nothing about the state or capacity of the person while actually on the job.

  7. #47
    Guru

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:36 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,339

    Re: Drug Testing

    We don't use drug testing to tell us whether an employee is on drugs while working. We use drug testing as an indicator of intelligence. If someone is stupid enough to use street drugs, we don't want them working for us.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    We don't use drug testing to tell us whether an employee is on drugs while working. We use drug testing as an indicator of intelligence. If someone is stupid enough to use street drugs, we don't want them working for us.
    Do you offer to submit to a drug test upon your applicant’s request?

  9. #49
    Guru
    Binary_Digit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Last Seen
    08-24-16 @ 01:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,413

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    We don't use drug testing to tell us whether an employee is on drugs while working. We use drug testing as an indicator of intelligence. If someone is stupid enough to use street drugs, we don't want them working for us.
    If that's your business model and it works for you, then that's great. But I have to say I think it's a very closed-minded and stereotypical approach to screening applicants. Some of the most capable and ambitious professionals I've worked with turned out to be occasional marijuana smokers who keep it a closely guarded secret because of the social taboos. If you're willing to occasionally trade good talent for arbitrary labels then that's your company's choice, but I would wager that you're actually screening for people who don't know how to pass a urinalysis, and that right now you have MJ smokers working for you who are doing a great job.

    If a company actually believes that smoking MJ is any indication of intelligence, then maybe that's not the best place to work for anyway. I can see blatant problems in that reasoning that would make me concerned about the judgment of thier leadership.

  10. #50
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    in a neocon's craw
    Last Seen
    06-29-09 @ 11:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,801

    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Is mandatory drug testing as part of entrance to a job, or random drug testing while on the job, a violation of the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure?

    Explain your answer.
    I voted "other".

    If your employer tells you before you are hired that a drug test is required and that you may be randomly tested then it is not a violation, IMHO.

    If your employer decides to start a testing program while you are already employed and requires you to submit or face termination then I would say it is a violation.

    I would also say that they must test for Alcohol and prescription drugs as well though, otherwise it is discriminatory.

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •