View Poll Results: Is drug testing a violation of the 4th Amendment?

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Thread: Drug Testing

  1. #111
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I think you're misrepresenting why companies drug test. We have 'drug-free' schools. 'Drug-free' workplaces. There's even a federal act:

    Drug Free Workplace

    There's quite a bit of pressure on employers to maintain drug-free environments. There is little or no pressure to monitor employees for parking tickets or speeding violations.

    ..
    But drug testing doesn't test for a drug free work environment. It tests for drug free personnel. I have no problem with workplaces being drug free. I do have a problem with workplaces monitoring what I do when I'm NOT at work. I can do lines of coke at home and still not break their "drug-free workplace" rule. However, I can't drink coffee at work and maintain their "drug-free workplace" rule.

    Nowhere is drug-FREE. They're only free of specific drugs.

    And actually, I highly doubt that even. I was only tested upon being hired at one place, never tested again. All I had to do was be "clean" for a couple weeks. After that it was smooth sailing.

  2. #112
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    How am I supporting the drug laws. The US lost the so called drug war years ago. They should call in the dogs, piss on the fire, and go home. (the piss on the fire part should probably be done by one of the men folk)
    I suppose you could say that the U.S. lost the so-called 'War on Poverty' years ago as well. The 'War on Drugs' was an unfortunate term coined by the Nixon administration, probably as a direct result of President Johnson's 'War on Poverty.'

    Drug abuse is a problem, and must be dealt with one way or the other. The answer isn't simply to throw up our hands and walk away... but to come up with an overall strategy that makes sense from all standpoints.

    ..

  3. #113
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I suppose you could say that the U.S. lost the so-called 'War on Poverty' years ago as well. The 'War on Drugs' was an unfortunate term coined by the Nixon administration, probably as a direct result of President Johnson's 'War on Poverty.'
    Unfortunately, we're really good at declaring war on things, very bad at actually carrying through on it. What we've had is a PR campaign on drugs. We talk about it, we don't actually do anything to stop it.

    Drug abuse is a problem, and must be dealt with one way or the other. The answer isn't simply to throw up our hands and walk away... but to come up with an overall strategy that makes sense from all standpoints.
    Exactly. If we're going to make a commitment to be against illegal drugs, we need to take steps to eliminate illegal drugs. At the moment, we're not doing a whole lot. If we're going to have a war, we need to be at war. Otherwise, let's not pretend that we're going to do anything, just so politicians have another political patch on their sleeve.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Drug Testing

    We need a war on drugs, not a war on drug users.

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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    How am I supporting the drug laws. The US lost the so called drug war years ago. They should call in the dogs, piss on the fire, and go home. (the piss on the fire part should probably be done by one of the men folk)

    I don't care if people use street drugs or any other drugs for that matter and I have no problem with people being stupid. I just don't want to work with them or have them representing our company.

    .
    through apathy.

  6. #116
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    We need a war on drugs, not a war on drug users.
    No, we need a sane drug policy.

  7. #117
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    through apathy.
    Quote Originally Posted by American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language
    ap·a·thy (āp'ə-thē)
    n.
    1. Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal; indifference.
    2. Lack of emotion or feeling; impassiveness.
    Mind explaining how thinking the drug laws are counterproductive is being apathetic.

    .

  8. #118
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Here is an interesting story my friend related to me last night. It goes something like this:

    He goes to a neurosurgeon because he's got numbness in his right hand. They do an MRI and determine that he has nerve impingement from a car accident. They schedule surgery. He goes to the hospital for a pre-op examination. This examination was actually him sitting in a room with a nurse (an office with the door closed and just the two of them) and she asks questions about his medical history, he gives answers and she inputs them into a form on a computer.

    He's a long haired rock musician.

    When the interview is over she has him sign an admittance form and then slides a form to him and says sign here for a drug urinalysis.

    He is a civil libertarian and asks if everyone has to take a drug test before surgery? She say only people who admit to drug use. so he asks why he needs a urinalysis then. The nurse says, because he admitted to drug use. Confused, he asks when he did that. She says, he said he quite everything in 2003. He says, he told her that he quite smoking cigs in 2003 and she says what about pot or cocaine and he tells her he doesn't use pot or cocaine nor alcohol. He tells her that he wants that question changed to reflect what he actually said. She does and he doesn't have to sign the form. They leave the room and he goes for a blood test and goes home. the next day the anesthesiologist who says he needs to take a drug test. Apparently the nurse went back after they left the room and changed the answer back to say that he used pot and cocaine but stopped in 2003.

    He is infuriated and refuses to take the test. The anesthesiologist says he won't perform his job unless he takes one and the surgery is called off. Now his is fighting with the hospital to have them correct the questionaire and remove the info the nurse wrote. The hospital says they won't remove it but they will add a note saying that he disputes the info and that there is no evidence other than the nurses word so it should be considered an error. Now anyone who looks at his medical record (insurance company) will see this on his record.

    His wife said just take the test. He says he will not be forced to give up his right to privacy. I think he made an analogy to, if the nurse says he's a pregnant woman should he be forced to take a pregnancy test? Just because the nurse said it?

    What do you think?

  9. #119
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Here is an interesting story my friend related to me last night. It goes something like this:

    He goes to a neurosurgeon because he's got numbness in his right hand. They do an MRI and determine that he has nerve impingement from a car accident. They schedule surgery. He goes to the hospital for a pre-op examination. This examination was actually him sitting in a room with a nurse (an office with the door closed and just the two of them) and she asks questions about his medical history, he gives answers and she inputs them into a form on a computer.

    He's a long haired rock musician.

    When the interview is over she has him sign an admittance form and then slides a form to him and says sign here for a drug urinalysis.

    He is a civil libertarian and asks if everyone has to take a drug test before surgery? She say only people who admit to drug use. so he asks why he needs a urinalysis then. The nurse says, because he admitted to drug use. Confused, he asks when he did that. She says, he said he quite everything in 2003. He says, he told her that he quite smoking cigs in 2003 and she says what about pot or cocaine and he tells her he doesn't use pot or cocaine nor alcohol. He tells her that he wants that question changed to reflect what he actually said. She does and he doesn't have to sign the form. They leave the room and he goes for a blood test and goes home. the next day the anesthesiologist who says he needs to take a drug test. Apparently the nurse went back after they left the room and changed the answer back to say that he used pot and cocaine but stopped in 2003.

    He is infuriated and refuses to take the test. The anesthesiologist says he won't perform his job unless he takes one and the surgery is called off. Now his is fighting with the hospital to have them correct the questionaire and remove the info the nurse wrote. The hospital says they won't remove it but they will add a note saying that he disputes the info and that there is no evidence other than the nurses word so it should be considered an error. Now anyone who looks at his medical record (insurance company) will see this on his record.

    His wife said just take the test. He says he will not be forced to give up his right to privacy. I think he made an analogy to, if the nurse says he's a pregnant woman should he be forced to take a pregnancy test? Just because the nurse said it?

    What do you think?
    Pretty simple. Find another doctor/hospital and this time during the pre-op interview, if there is a dispute, demand to see a supervisor. Just make sure your answers are the complete truth. Knowledge of street drug usage can be critical in the choice of anesthesia technique and selection of agents and drugs.

    People, even nurses and doctors, usually form their opinion of you based on appearance and attitude on first meeting. That opinion usuallly affects how they interpret your words. If you look and act like a street drug user, well ...

    An anesthesiologist that put you to sleep without requiring adequate testing would be in deep doo-doo if it goes wrong.

    .
    Last edited by TOJ; 04-14-09 at 04:52 PM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Pretty simple. Find another doctor/hospital and this time during the pre-op interview, if there is a dispute, demand to see a supervisor. Just make sure your answers are the complete truth. Knowledge of street drug usage can be critical in the choice of anesthesia technique and selection of agents and drugs.

    People, even nurses and doctors, usually form their opinion of you based on appearance and attitude on first meeting. That opinion usuallly affects how they interpret your words. If you look and act like a street drug user, well ...

    An anesthesiologist that put you to sleep without requiring adequate testing would be in deep doo-doo if it goes wrong.

    .
    Did you miss this part "and asks if everyone has to take a drug test before surgery? She say only people who admit to drug use."

    Also, where we live there is only one hospital that performs the surgery and only one anesthesiology company. He has already looked into it. Not to mention that since this is in his record now, his insurance rates will probably go up and anyone requesting his medical reacord (another hospital) will most likely want a drug screen due to the error in his record.
    Last edited by Slippery Slope; 04-14-09 at 05:25 PM.

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