View Poll Results: Is drug testing a violation of the 4th Amendment?

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  • Yes

    4 8.70%
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    39 84.78%
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Thread: Drug Testing

  1. #91
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    If they need the buzz as you put it, they have a problem. If they don't need the buzz, they are stupid for doing something illegal and potientially harmful to their career and arguably, in the case of hard drugs, to their health.

    We don't want the potiential problems and, in our case, have no reason to take the risk.

    .
    Soo... if someone derives pleasure from doing something, they have a problem? They enjoy the feeling something gives them, it gives them a buzz (much like aspirin gives me, or like paddling a kayak off a waterfall gives me), and feeling good is somehow a "problem"?

  2. #92
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Is mandatory drug testing as part of entrance to a job, or random drug testing while on the job, a violation of the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure?

    Explain your answer.
    Not unless the govt is doing it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  3. #93
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Double-Standard doesn't really fit either. Definition of Double Standard

    In the case of drug testing... it would be a double-standard if they tested all employees for drugs, with the exception of executives. One standard for one group. A different standard for another group. That's a double standard.
    You're right, double-standard is not the right term. Thanks for the correction!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    A better example of hypocrisy would be a company that stated 'We have zero tolerance for cocaine usage and will fire any employee who tests positive for cocaine,' which then knowingly hires cocaine addicts. That would be hypocrisy.
    What if the company says, "We drug test because we don't want employees who break the law (marijuana users)" and then they turn around and knowingly hire people who break the law (speeders, parking violators)? Isn't that the same kind of scenario? Why not?

  4. #94
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    Re: Drug Testing

    An employer has the right to fire you for lots of reasons that seem to make no sense. If they feel that you are a liability, then they should.
    A coworker got fired for DWI, and had his license suspended for a fairly short time period, and TRIED to keep that a secret, but failed. Since his job required him to drive a service truck, they fired him. They COULD have temporarily had him do other work, in the shop, but since he was already causing some other grief in the work group, it was a good opportunity for the company to just send him down the road.
    Fact is, if you do anything to expose your employer to a lawsuit, your job is at risk, and rightfully so.
    Oracle of Utah
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  5. #95
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Employers have the right to be inconsistent and hypocritical, I'm not saying they shouldn't.

  6. #96
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I don't care about the 4th Amendment. I care about non-accountable authority figures having the power to dictate what private citizens do in their own private homes on their own private time.
    There is no dictate. The employee is informed prior to his being hired that he will be drug tested. In other words, it's voluntary.

    I personally don't believe drug testing is conductive to running an efficient business. It makes no difference to me whether someone is lazy and unmotivated because they're stoned all the time or lazy and unmotivated because that's just the way they are.

    The only time drug testing makes sense is when the person is directly involved in a job which may present a safety hazard if he's inebriated. Even then, it still makes little sense because it's perfectly possible for someone to get high at home and be sober at work, just like alcohol.

    I do, however, support firing people who get stoned at/before work. (Unless I'm running an art studio for instance, in which case it might actually be beneficial)
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 04-08-09 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    What if the company says, "We drug test because we don't want employees who break the law (marijuana users)" and then they turn around and knowingly hire people who break the law (speeders, parking violators)? Isn't that the same kind of scenario? Why not?
    I think you're misrepresenting why companies drug test. We have 'drug-free' schools. 'Drug-free' workplaces. There's even a federal act:

    Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988

    Federal statute relating to drug abuse policies that requires all employers with federal contracts at least equal to $25,000 to certify, as a condition of receiving a federal contract, that the employer will provide and maintain a drug-free workplace.
    Drug Free Workplace

    There's quite a bit of pressure on employers to maintain drug-free environments. There is little or no pressure to monitor employees for parking tickets or speeding violations.

    ..

  8. #98
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    No problem. Just fire them. If they were marginal anyway, your done with them. If you want them back offer them their job back if they sign the agreement. See how simple that was.
    Actually, in the 90's in CA. I worked for as small company that got bought by a big company (Corporate Express) and they handed us the form to accept and sign for drug testing. I said no. They said ok, we'll grandfather you in... See how simple THAT was.

    When several of my coworkers heard they asked to have their form thrown out and to be grandfathered in... this time THEY were the ones told no.

  9. #99
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    In a way I think it's a civic duty to disobey fascist laws that should be repealed, in the spirit of the Moonshiners and the Boston Tea Party.
    Amen! I wish more people felt like this.

  10. #100
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    Re: Drug Testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Whatever we may feel is 'right' or 'wrong' about the issue, the fact of the matter is that employers do have, and probably should have, wide and broad authority when it comes to who they can hire and fire and why.

    There are a handful of 'protected classes' covered by Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) laws at federal and state levels... race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, among others.

    Beyond that, an employer can fire you for just about whatever reason they like. Don't like your attitude? You're gone. Don't like the clothes you wear? Out the door. Don't like the car you drive? See ya later! Don't like smokers, vegetarians, or gamblers? Goodbye!

    None of these are 'protected' under law.

    And if people in this country had any self respect they'd tell these employers to **** off and the practice of being an asshole employer would likely come to a halt. But we're a country of sheeple and if the gubment say it be bad it must be...

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