View Poll Results: What do you think of this Universal Health Care plan?

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Thread: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

  1. #1
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    Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    I've been working on this for a couple weeks now. My basic idea is to have three government plans, of varying levels of coverage, along with private health insurers. My plan also provides vouchers to the poor so they can afford their premiums, and it eliminates the incentives for employers to provide health insurance so that individuals could buy affordable plans on their own if they didn't like the federal plans.

    What do you think?


    UNIVERSALITY
    1. It shall be illegal for any public or private health insurance plan to discriminate, deny coverage, and/or charge different premiums based on gender, age, race, sexual orientation, genetic profile, or pre-existing conditions.
    2. Federal Health Vouchers shall be made available for individuals with incomes below $20,000 who request them, to purchase a public or private health insurance plan, using the following formula to determine the per-month stipend: ($1,000 / Income) * $750. Vouchers shall not exceed $75 per month for individuals. The voucher shall be paid directly to the health insurer.
    3. Federal Health Vouchers shall be made available for families with incomes below $32,000 who request them, to purchase a public or private health insurance plan, using the following formula to determine the per-month stipend: ($1,000 / Income) * $2,250. Vouchers shall not exceed $225 per month for families. The voucher shall be paid directly to the health insurer.
    4. All persons residing within the United States or its territories shall be required to have health insurance for themselves and all of their dependents. Failure to comply with this provision shall result in the offender and/or his or her dependents being retroactively registered for the US Green Plan. The offender’s wages may be garnished to pay back premiums.
    5. Foreigners in the United States on a temporary work visa or student visa, or foreigners who are in the United States for no more than three months, shall be automatically covered under the Green Plan unless they have health insurance of their own. It shall be illegal for foreigners to travel to the United States specifically to use the Green Plan.

    FEDERAL PLANS
    6. The federal government shall offer the following health insurance plans to all US citizens and permanent residents, beginning on January 1, 2011:
    a. Green Plan (Individual/Family) - $40/$120 Premium per Month. $2,000/$4,000 Annual Deductible. $6,000/$12,000 Annual Maximum. 60% of hospital services. 60% of newborn care. 80% of physician visits. 70% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $30 co-pay for urgent care. $20 co-pay for physician care.
    b. Blue Plan (Individual/Family) - $100/$300 Premium per Month. $500/$1,500 Annual Deductible. $3,000/$9,000 Annual Maximum. 80% of hospital services. 80% of newborn care. 90% of physician visits. 80% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $20 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care.
    c. Red Plan (Individual/Family) - $120/$360 Premium per Month. $250/$750 Annual Deductible. $1,250/$3,750 Annual Maximum. 90% of hospital services. 90% of newborn care. 100% of physician visits. 90% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $15 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care. People receiving Federal Health Vouchers are NOT eligible for the Red Plan, unless they are a current or former member of the Armed Forces with an honorable discharge.
    7. Each plan will run for a two year session. No one registered with a government plan may cancel the plan and/or switch to another plan until the end of the session. Anyone who signs up for a plan in the middle of a session may not cancel until they have participated for a full session.

    COST CONTROL
    8. Any person who files a false or frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits shall pay the court costs and legal fees for both parties, and be fined up to 25% of the compensation which they sought.
    9. No medical malpractice lawsuit shall award more than $5 million for a wrongful death. No medical malpractice lawsuit shall award more than $750,000 for pain and suffering. There shall be no maximum on compensation for medical bills resulting from a medical malpractice lawsuit.
    10. The federal government hereby establishes the Federal Malpractice Database. Any medical professional who has been found liable for medical malpractice on more than one occasion shall have the details and circumstances of the cases published in the Federal Malpractice Database, which shall be publicly available to all consumers.
    11. The federal government hereby authorizes the Department of Health and Human Services to establish best methods and practices, including a National Health Database through which doctors may access patients’ medical records if the patient signs a release. No information from the National Health Database may ever be sold or made public, except with the consent of the patient. No information from the National Health Database shall ever be turned over to law enforcement, except with the consent of the patient or under court subpoena. Violators of this policy are subject to a $500,000 fine, up to six years in federal prison, and the permanent revocation of all medical licenses.

    PAYING FOR IT ALL
    12. In Fiscal Year 2011, 20% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income. In FY2012, 40%. In FY2013, 60%. In FY2014, 80%. In FY2015 and every year thereafter, 100% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income.
    13. In FY2012 and every year thereafter, all income over $3.5 million shall be taxed at a rate of 42%.
    14. In FY2011 and every year thereafter, all out-of-pocket health expenses (excluding cosmetic surgery) and all health insurance premiums which are paid by the consumer and/or the consumer’s dependent shall be tax deductible.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-12-09 at 11:24 PM.
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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    I vote no.

    The federal government should not be involved in health care, except in a regulatory mannner (prusiant to its power to regulate interstate commerce). It certainly has no buisness in PROVIDING health care to the population in general.

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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    I've been working on this for a couple weeks now. My basic idea is to have three government plans, of varying levels of coverage, along with private health insurers. My plan also provides vouchers to the poor so they can afford their premiums, and it eliminates the incentives for employers to provide health insurance so that individuals could buy affordable plans on their own if they didn't like the federal plans.

    What do you think?
    I'll just point out some of the problems I see, and we'll assume I either agree with, or am nuetral about the topics I don't cover.
    UNIVERSALITY
    1. It shall be illegal for any public or private health insurance plan to discriminate, deny coverage, and/or charge different premiums based on gender, age, race, sexual orientation, genetic profile, or pre-existing conditions.
    No way this could work, at least for the private sector. Different premiums are charged on some of these groupings, because analysis would show that being in certain groups or attaining certin thresholds such as age, leads to an increase in the use of health insurance over others. Insurance is a pooled risk, and it needs to be determined what pool you are a part of, so that you are paying your fair markert share of the risk you are transferring to the insurance company. I don't have much issue with you saying they cannot deny coverage based on those criteria, but to then tell them they cannot increase the premium amounts based on things like age and pre-existing conditions, you would bankrupt the private market faster than you could blink.

    4.All persons residing within the United States or its territories shall be required to have health insurance for themselves and all of their dependents. Failure to comply with this provision shall result in the offender and/or his or her dependents being retroactively registered for the US Green Plan. The offender’s wages may be garnished to pay back premiums.
    Health insurance should not be mandatory. Some people simply aren't going to bother with getting insurance. The ones that want it, will get it via one of your plans. Trying to enforce this would be an unnecessary bueracracy.


    FEDERAL PLANS
    6. The federal government shall offer the following health insurance plans to all US citizens and permanent residents, beginning on January 1, 2011:
    a. Green Plan (Individual/Family) - $40/$120 Premium per Month. $2,000/$4,000 Annual Deductible. $6,000/$12,000 Annual Maximum. 60% of hospital services. 60% of newborn care. 80% of physician visits. 70% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $30 co-pay for urgent care. $20 co-pay for physician care.
    b. Blue Plan (Individual/Family) - $100/$300 Premium per Month. $500/$1,500 Annual Deductible. $3,000/$9,000 Annual Maximum. 80% of hospital services. 80% of newborn care. 90% of physician visits. 80% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $20 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care.
    c. Red Plan (Individual/Family) - $120/$360 Premium per Month. $250/$750 Annual Deductible. $1,250/$3,750 Annual Maximum. 90% of hospital services. 90% of newborn care. 100% of physician visits. 90% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $15 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care. People receiving Federal Health Vouchers are NOT eligible for the Red Plan, unless they are a current or former member of the Armed Forces with an honorable discharge.
    7. Each plan will run for a two year session. No one registered with a government plan may cancel the plan and/or switch to another plan until the end of the session. Anyone who signs up for a plan in the middle of a session may not cancel until they have participated for a full session.
    I am unsure as to what your threshholds for each plan would be. Or are all three offered regardless of income level? I'm sorry, but the green plan looks flat out horrible. Anybody who was purchasing that plan as a bare minimum
    , would have horrible coverage that ends up costing them more money out of pocket. I realize its a quasi-market crafted set of plans (less premium=less coverage), but I feel the green plan falls well short of being feasible. My other question would be that having set premiums in dollar amounts like this, regardless of any underwriting, it would become unfeasible for the government to maintain those rates over time.

    And for number 7, anybody should be able to opt out of their insurance at any time, for any reasoon. Thats how the private market works. There is no reason to keep people on the government subsidized plans, if they can afford to move off them.

    COST CONTROL

    10.The federal government hereby establishes the Federal Malpractice Database. Any medical professional who has been found liable for medical malpractice on more than one occasion shall have the details and circumstances of the cases published in the Federal Malpractice Database, which shall be publicly available to all consumers.
    Disagree. The states liscence healthcare practioners, and thereby have the responsibility of overseeing the ethical conduct of said healthcare providers. If the states choose to do this, fine. It doesn't need to be done at the federal level.

    11.The federal government hereby authorizes the Department of Health and Human Services to establish best methods and practices, including a National Health Database through which doctors may access patients’ medical records if the patient signs a release. No information from the National Health Database may ever be sold or made public, except with the consent of the patient. No information from the National Health Database shall ever be turned over to law enforcement, except with the consent of the patient or under court subpoena. Violators of this policy are subject to a $500,000 fine, up to six years in federal prison, and the permanent revocation of all medical licenses.
    Again, I disagree that the H&HS should determine the best practices. Thats what doctors and nurses get paid to do. Thats why they go to years of school, interships etc...We don't need a bueracracy in D.C. determining treatment.
    I understand that private insurers kind of do this already, but they have liscenced professionals on hand to dispute treatment. They are also liscenced by the states, and thus it is incumbent upon the state legislatures to determine the power of health insurers doing business in their state. Having the Federal government essentially replace, or replicate one of the major problems in the healthcare industry(IMO) is not a solution, but just more problems and more bueracracy.

    Edit: Forgot to add this

    12. In Fiscal Year 2011, 20% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income. In FY2012, 40%. In FY2013, 60%. In FY2014, 80%. In FY2015 and every year thereafter, 100% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income.
    I don't support this. You shouldn't tax the people who are on private group health insurance plans, to pay for individuals that are on the government plans. Don't penalize people who choose the private market.
    Last edited by WI Crippler; 03-13-09 at 09:24 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I've been working on this for a couple weeks now. My basic idea is to have three government plans, of varying levels of coverage, along with private health insurers. My plan also provides vouchers to the poor so they can afford their premiums, and it eliminates the incentives for employers to provide health insurance so that individuals could buy affordable plans on their own if they didn't like the federal plans.

    What do you think?


    UNIVERSALITY
    1. It shall be illegal for any public or private health insurance plan to discriminate, deny coverage, and/or charge different premiums based on gender, age, race, sexual orientation, genetic profile, or pre-existing conditions.
    2. Federal Health Vouchers shall be made available for individuals with incomes below $20,000 who request them, to purchase a public or private health insurance plan, using the following formula to determine the per-month stipend: ($1,000 / Income) * $750. Vouchers shall not exceed $75 per month for individuals. The voucher shall be paid directly to the health insurer.
    3. Federal Health Vouchers shall be made available for families with incomes below $32,000 who request them, to purchase a public or private health insurance plan, using the following formula to determine the per-month stipend: ($1,000 / Income) * $2,250. Vouchers shall not exceed $225 per month for families. The voucher shall be paid directly to the health insurer.
    4. All persons residing within the United States or its territories shall be required to have health insurance for themselves and all of their dependents. Failure to comply with this provision shall result in the offender and/or his or her dependents being retroactively registered for the US Green Plan. The offender’s wages may be garnished to pay back premiums.
    5. Foreigners in the United States on a temporary work visa or student visa, or foreigners who are in the United States for no more than three months, shall be automatically covered under the Green Plan unless they have health insurance of their own. It shall be illegal for foreigners to travel to the United States specifically to use the Green Plan.

    FEDERAL PLANS
    6. The federal government shall offer the following health insurance plans to all US citizens and permanent residents, beginning on January 1, 2011:
    a. Green Plan (Individual/Family) - $40/$120 Premium per Month. $2,000/$4,000 Annual Deductible. $6,000/$12,000 Annual Maximum. 60% of hospital services. 60% of newborn care. 80% of physician visits. 70% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $30 co-pay for urgent care. $20 co-pay for physician care.
    b. Blue Plan (Individual/Family) - $100/$300 Premium per Month. $500/$1,500 Annual Deductible. $3,000/$9,000 Annual Maximum. 80% of hospital services. 80% of newborn care. 90% of physician visits. 80% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $20 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care.
    c. Red Plan (Individual/Family) - $120/$360 Premium per Month. $250/$750 Annual Deductible. $1,250/$3,750 Annual Maximum. 90% of hospital services. 90% of newborn care. 100% of physician visits. 90% all other services. $100 co-pay for emergency care. $15 co-pay for urgent care. $10 co-pay for physician care. People receiving Federal Health Vouchers are NOT eligible for the Red Plan, unless they are a current or former member of the Armed Forces with an honorable discharge.
    7. Each plan will run for a two year session. No one registered with a government plan may cancel the plan and/or switch to another plan until the end of the session. Anyone who signs up for a plan in the middle of a session may not cancel until they have participated for a full session.

    COST CONTROL
    8. Any person who files a false or frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits shall pay the court costs and legal fees for both parties, and be fined up to 25% of the compensation which they sought.
    9. No medical malpractice lawsuit shall award more than $5 million for a wrongful death. No medical malpractice lawsuit shall award more than $750,000 for pain and suffering. There shall be no maximum on compensation for medical bills resulting from a medical malpractice lawsuit.
    10. The federal government hereby establishes the Federal Malpractice Database. Any medical professional who has been found liable for medical malpractice on more than one occasion shall have the details and circumstances of the cases published in the Federal Malpractice Database, which shall be publicly available to all consumers.
    11. The federal government hereby authorizes the Department of Health and Human Services to establish best methods and practices, including a National Health Database through which doctors may access patients’ medical records if the patient signs a release. No information from the National Health Database may ever be sold or made public, except with the consent of the patient. No information from the National Health Database shall ever be turned over to law enforcement, except with the consent of the patient or under court subpoena. Violators of this policy are subject to a $500,000 fine, up to six years in federal prison, and the permanent revocation of all medical licenses.

    PAYING FOR IT ALL
    12. In Fiscal Year 2011, 20% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income. In FY2012, 40%. In FY2013, 60%. In FY2014, 80%. In FY2015 and every year thereafter, 100% of employer-paid health insurance premiums shall be taxed on the employee’s income and payroll taxes as ordinary income.
    13. In FY2012 and every year thereafter, all income over $3.5 million shall be taxed at a rate of 42%.
    14. In FY2011 and every year thereafter, all out-of-pocket health expenses (excluding cosmetic surgery) and all health insurance premiums which are paid by the consumer and/or the consumer’s dependent shall be tax deductible.
    Well, I have some general problems with the details, but first, what would be the cost? What would be the ballpark figure?

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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Here's my Universal Health Care Plan, for comparison:

    You have a body?

    You pay to take care of it.

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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    subscribe 123456+

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Don't have any unpaid taxes do ya? I expect Obama will be calling any minute to have you head up the effort.

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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    No way this could work, at least for the private sector. Different premiums are charged on some of these groupings, because analysis would show that being in certain groups or attaining certin thresholds such as age, leads to an increase in the use of health insurance over others. Insurance is a pooled risk, and it needs to be determined what pool you are a part of, so that you are paying your fair markert share of the risk you are transferring to the insurance company. I don't have much issue with you saying they cannot deny coverage based on those criteria, but to then tell them they cannot increase the premium amounts based on things like age and pre-existing conditions, you would bankrupt the private market faster than you could blink.
    I agree that insurance is about pooling risk, which is exactly why I think it should be illegal to discriminate based on these things. Your "fair market share of the risk" is very subjective...it's not as though people CHOOSE to be 70 years old and have diabetes and cancer.

    It wouldn't bankrupt the private market so much as shift some of the cost from high-risk patients to low-risk patients. Which is absolutely necessary, as people cannot afford expensive medical procedures on their own.

    This is part of the reason I included the mandatory-health-insurance provision. I recognize that if discrimination is illegal, insurance companies will be flooded with high-risk applicants with few low-risk applicants to balance it out. This problem would be eliminated if it were mandatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    Health insurance should not be mandatory. Some people simply aren't going to bother with getting insurance. The ones that want it, will get it via one of your plans. Trying to enforce this would be an unnecessary bueracracy.
    If they don't get health insurance, then they'll eventually show up at the ER and present the government with a much higher bill, than if it had just been nipped in the bud when the problem was small.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    I am unsure as to what your threshholds for each plan would be. Or are all three offered regardless of income level? I'm sorry, but the green plan looks flat out horrible. Anybody who was purchasing that plan as a bare minimum
    , would have horrible coverage that ends up costing them more money out of pocket. I realize its a quasi-market crafted set of plans (less premium=less coverage), but I feel the green plan falls well short of being feasible. My other question would be that having set premiums in dollar amounts like this, regardless of any underwriting, it would become unfeasible for the government to maintain those rates over time.
    Basically, the Green Plan is designed to provide "catastrophic" insurance only. For 20-somethings who aren't at much risk and don't have a lot of money for premiums, or for very wealthy people who are willing to self-insure to a large degree. I agree that it would be horrible for a middle-class family or an older person.

    As for the premiums and benefits, there's no reason that the government couldn't alter them. These were just my ideas for three distinct levels of coverage. Obviously the exact details could be changed. Congress could adjust the premiums/benefits each year.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    And for number 7, anybody should be able to opt out of their insurance at any time, for any reasoon. Thats how the private market works. There is no reason to keep people on the government subsidized plans, if they can afford to move off them.
    I included this provision more for cost-control than anything else. Forbidding people from cancelling their plan before the end of the session would prevent people from joining in June 2011, having some expensive one-time procedure in July 2011, and cancelling the plan in August 2011. Most private insurers have similar provisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    Disagree. The states liscence healthcare practioners, and thereby have the responsibility of overseeing the ethical conduct of said healthcare providers. If the states choose to do this, fine. It doesn't need to be done at the federal level.
    That's fair enough. I'm not entirely sure how medical licensing works (like if an Ohio Medical License is valid in the other 49 states), but if the states have complete control over who can operate in their states, then I'd agree that this provision could be nixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    Again, I disagree that the H&HS should determine the best practices. Thats what doctors and nurses get paid to do. Thats why they go to years of school, interships etc...We don't need a bueracracy in D.C. determining treatment.
    I'm not referring to the DHHS publishing guidelines that say "If the patient has Disease X, give them Treatment Y." I agree that the doctors and nurses should do that. I was referring more to the clerical aspect of medicine. If Cigna requires Form A and C, and Anthem requires Form B and D, and Medicare requires forms A, C, and D, then the system is really not efficient. If the federal government simply mandated a common standard, then a lot of these inefficiencies in the system would be eliminated. One of the biggest problems in our system is that isn't really a system at all, but a patchwork of hospitals and insurers each with different policies. An obscene proportion of medical costs go toward paper-pushing. If we had some national standards, that could largely be eliminated or at least mitigated.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    I understand that private insurers kind of do this already, but they have liscenced professionals on hand to dispute treatment.
    The DHHS has licensed professionals on hand as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler
    I don't support this. You shouldn't tax the people who are on private group health insurance plans, to pay for individuals that are on the government plans. Don't penalize people who choose the private market.
    This really isn't so much a penalty as the removal of a subsidy. There's not really any reason that employer-paid medical benefits SHOULDN'T be taxed as ordinary income. People are still getting something of monetary value in exchange for their employment. Eliminating this subsidy wouldn't really favor government plans over private plans...it would favor individual plans over employer plans.

    The idea of this isn't necessarily to get everyone's on the government dime. It's to break the tie between employment and health insurance. Under the current system, people have very few options for affordable health insurance if they aren't employed, because individual plans are unbelievably expensive.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-13-09 at 03:59 PM.
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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Under the current system, people have very few options for affordable health insurance if they aren't employed, because individual plans are unbelievably expensive.
    I'll get to the rest of your post tonight when I have time, but I wanted to point out this part. The reason its so expensive for individual plans, is because thats the market cost for those plans. Employer or group health insurance where the employer pays a portion of the costs, is one way to effectively reduce the premium the individual pays. Having the government basically replace the "employer" paying a portion of costs(which is what you are doing), isn't necessarily going to reduce the market price of insurance which the government will have to pay.

    Other things you have brought up could help reduce healthcare costs, and I'll get into that later tonight when I have time.
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    Re: Kandahar's Universal Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I vote no.

    The federal government should not be involved in health care, except in a regulatory mannner (prusiant to its power to regulate interstate commerce). It certainly has no buisness in PROVIDING health care to the population in general.
    If the federal government should not provide for the health of its citizens, why should it provide for their safety? Why have fire departments, police or military? Isn't the whole point of government to improve the lives of citizens?

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