View Poll Results: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

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  • Yes

    15 23.44%
  • No

    49 76.56%
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Thread: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

  1. #71
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    F'n brilliant. Nothing like MSN convos to prove your point.
    Did you read the actual supporting evidence?

    I think the site that is presenting it is stupid but I've known about this paper for some time, I just couldn't find a link for it.

    It's pretty enlightening.

    I tried to get the paper from the Chicago Journals but you have to pay for it.

    http://www.christianparty.net/lottonsuffrage.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    Last time I checked, being born in the U.S. meant you were a citizen, and citizens get Constitutional rights. Your citizenship isn't based on how much money you make or your way of life, and your rights aren't revoked because you don't fall into an income tax bracket. Money is what helped the settlers buy resources to build America, but it was their own physical strength, endurance, and dedication that permitted them to continue. Just because you don't make money doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute.

    Sounds to me like advocates of this idea are the type of people who would never volunteer or do anything unpaid.
    I understand what you are saying.

    Why should everyone be able to vote when most don't understand the concepts of which our government was founded on?

    They only hurt the freedoms and liberty we are supposed to enjoy from their complete ignorance and stupidity.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by bilbus View Post
    She does not contribute to society, she contributes to her family, its not the same.
    By contributing to her family she assists in the positive rearing of her children which contributes to society. You are absolutely wrong.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #73
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Can you cite an example of a wealthy person that paid no federal imcome tax due to loopholes?
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Re: The ultra-rich not paying taxes - That's just not possible, unless they actually have no income. There is no way to get out of paying taxes altogether, regardless of how many deductions or tax shelters you use.
    I'm not going to research it, but I'd imagine it's possible with charitable donations and other ways to defer or not declare income. If it would help, though I believe I am correct, theoretically, Ill concede this point.

    Something to consider, though. Before the 16th Amendment, plenty of people voted. Does this mean our founding fathers were wrong about people being allowed to vote?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #74
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I don't like Democrats either.

    Unlike you, I don't support their positions.

    Just because YOU can't win an argument doesn't mean the other guy isn't using sound logic.
    Let's try this. Perhaps you need to attack positions because you cannot logically win an argument and prefer to post in hyperbole because that's all you've got. So let's take your points one at at time...and watch...I can show you just how ridiculous your comments are by countering them with equally ridiculous statements.



    Well, let's take 'em one at a time.

    Students? If they knew ****, they'd be done going to school....unless they're military vets. Since they don't know ****, they don't need to vote.
    Or perhaps those in the military were too stupid to go to college...therefore they should not vote because of their lack of intelligence.

    See what I did? I matched your idiocy with some equal idiocy.

    Disabled people...if they can't earn money, they've got bigger problems than getting to the polls....and if they're not earning enough to pay income taxes....no, they shouldn't have a vote. I'm easy. Just because they're crippled doesn't mean they should get anything for free.
    And people who are not disabled have no right voting for any services that they should not get. Therefore, only the disabled should vote, since it is they who are getting the services.

    Idiocy meet idiocy.

    I'm also blunt.
    And have no clue.

    That means I don't have a pointy head, got it?
    Nor does it mean you have a point...as evidenced by your post.

    Volunteering is nice. Why should someone who makes a choice to "volunteer", and thereby forego earning an income that can be taxed, get benefits the people that earn the incomes and pay the taxes get...ie, voting for the members of congress who decide how the tax dollars are spent? It's not the volunteers tax dollars, right?
    These are people who are performing a service, perhaps for their country...making them a whole lot more valuable than the guy making millions selling real estate.

    Hyperbole meet hyperbole.

    So, if they want a "voice in government", how about if the drop the feel good stuff and get an honest job, instead?
    If you want a voice in government, how about drop the "greed" and participate in it.

    Foolishness meet foolishness.

    You just have to accept the fact that it's morally wrong for people who don't earn the money to have a say in how it's spent.
    In your opinion. Your morals count for diddly. As does everyone's moral when trying to make a coherent argument.

    And if that means the people who do pay decide that the people who don't vote don't have unconstitutional entitlements to their money, that's only fair. Socialism is, after all, the reason the nation's drowing in debt and suffering a banking collapse.
    Fortunately, most people recognize the idiocy of not allowing people to vote so this will never occur...unless a dictatorship, which seems to be what you are proposing, happens in the US.

    And as a note. My comments above do not reflect my beliefs. I have the utmost respect for the military, students, volunteers, the disabled, the abled, and the like. My points were made to demonstrate the foolishness of what Scarecrow said. Which was rather easy to do.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #75
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    F'n brilliant. Nothing like MSN convos to prove your point.
    You left out the best part!

    "I, as a submissive woman of God, and of sound mind, do hereby give my vote to this man of God: __________________ to exercise for the glory of Yahvh, our Creator. I make this statement publickly as an example for other godly women to emulate, and for the edification of the world through which we are passing.

    I make this statement bona fide dei gratia, for Christ Jesus my Lord. Amen."

    Signed: _______________________

    Sponsored by: Women for God's Law
    I know I already filled mine out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Last time I checked, being born in the U.S. meant you were a citizen, and citizens get Constitutional rights. Your citizenship isn't based on how much money you make or your way of life, and your rights aren't revoked because you don't fall into an income tax bracket. Money is what helped the settlers buy resources to build America, but it was their own physical strength, endurance, and dedication that permitted them to continue. Just because you don't make money doesn't mean you have nothing to contribute.

    Sounds to me like advocates of this idea are the type of people who would never volunteer or do anything unpaid.
    The Constitution doesn't guarantee anyone the right to vote.

    "The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College."
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not going to research it, but I'd imagine it's possible with charitable donations and other ways to defer or not declare income. If it would help, though I believe I am correct, theoretically, Ill concede this point.
    I think that the AMT limits the amount of deductions that you can take even accounting for charitable donations. Warren Buffet donated $40b to charity and he still pays 15% on his capital gains like everyone else.
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Socialism is, after all, the reason the nation's drowing in debt and suffering a banking collapse.
    Another day, another inaccurate reference to socialism...

  7. #77
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by bilbus View Post
    Why should people who contribute nothing, be permited to vote .. they will only vote for somone who will keep giving them free stuff.

    Think of it like high school .. the one that got voted class presedent was the one who promised to do the most stuff for the most people.
    good point, I propose that, in order to vote, everyone must serve full time at least 2 years in public service, plus 6 years part time, and 12 years "on call" as needed.
    Those who don't measure up physically or mentally can serve in less demanding functions under supervision.
    Benefit for doing this would be subsidized health care for life, up to 100% depending on how much "full time" plus "part time" you do, based on a point system similar to serving in the military reserves.
    Paying taxes is not the way to determine eligibility, paying dues is....
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by bilbus View Post
    Sure, if you cheat on your taxes you should be barred from office.



    Typical wealth envy, When the top 5% of achievers pay 60% of the taxes .. sounds to me like they are paying plenty.

    What percent taxes should the richiest 1% pay? 30%? 50%? More?

    Percentiles Ranked by AGI
    AGI Threshold on Percentiles
    Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

    Top 1%
    $388,806
    39.89

    Top 5%
    $153,542
    60.14

    Top 10%
    $108,904
    70.79

    Top 25%
    $64,702
    86.27

    Top 50%
    $31,987
    97.01

    Bottom 50%
    <$31,987
    2.99

    Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
    Source: Internal Revenue Service
    The flaw here is that you are using AGI, not total income, to make your point.
    The more you make, the more you are able to afford lawyers to figure out tax dodges that lower your taxable income....
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    No, I don't agree with that in the least, but I can see where it causes major problems. When the poor who pay no taxes are able to vote on massive boondoggles and entitlement programs for themselves because they know it's a complete freebie, that's a bit unfair. It would be interesting to see some sort of separation between purely political issues, which anyone can vote on, and fiscal issues, which requires a tax-paying status, but I really can't fathom how such a thing would work.
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The flaw here is that you are using AGI, not total income, to make your point.
    The more you make, the more you are able to afford lawyers to figure out tax dodges that lower your taxable income....
    The idea that lawyers can magically eliminate your taxes and that all the rich take advantage of it is largely a myth. Trust me, there's only so much that can be done, short of actually breaking the law by hiding income. Even then, the majority of the savings comes from the way the income is categorized, not from lowering the actual AGI.
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