View Poll Results: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

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  • Yes

    15 23.44%
  • No

    49 76.56%
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Thread: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

  1. #181
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    My post was not in any way off-topic.

    It illustrated an example of how 'agreeing with me' is not the common denominator.

    I could make similer examples using gay marriage, taxation, etc.
    agreeing with you on the ideal size of government is the common denominator in your voting criteria. you can try to say the founding fathers are on your side, but not all of them are and you know it.

    argumentum ad nauseum, jerry, logical fallacy!!1

    my undiagnosed ADD is kicking in. smell you later.

  2. #182
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The structure is unnatural. Children shouldn't be forced into collectives where hierarchies develop.

    Government schools in their present form have only existed for about 150 years. It is still a relatively new concept.

    I agree that one must pursue their own self actualization on the other hand when the authority that presides over the collective recognizes certain groups above others it has negative effects for the more meritorious group.

    Example. In most of my schooling years the hierarchy recognized by the teachers, administration, and students was jocks=preps > average collective > intellectuals= artists.

    The top end of the hierarchy received more privileges when they were not earned.
    I have my own beef with public schools, even though I went to private.

    consider what was in place before the current system. how would that be better, or even possible with today's population and distribution?

    I think all schools should be privatized for fiscal purposes but I also think the quality of education would improve with competition. however, that wouldn't necessarily solve the hierarchy issue you're talking about. maybe segregation by gender.

  3. #183
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    agreeing with you on the ideal size of government is the common denominator in your voting criteria. you can try to say the founding fathers are on your side, but not all of them are and you know it.

    argumentum ad nauseum, jerry, logical fallacy!!1

    my undiagnosed ADD is kicking in. smell you later.
    You're personalizing the topic again.

    It's not that anyone need agree with **ME** at all...they need to agree with the founding fathers.

  4. #184
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax


  5. #185
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax


  6. #186
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  7. #187
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I have my own beef with public schools, even though I went to private.
    Very cool. I bet is was better than my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    consider what was in place before the current system. how would that be better, or even possible with today's population and distribution?
    The current form of schooling was partially necessary because of the huge amount of illiterate people in our country.

    Now the reverse is true. Nearly everyone is literate now.

    It's not as hard to imagine a custom education system.

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I think all schools should be privatized for fiscal purposes but I also think the quality of education would improve with competition. however, that wouldn't necessarily solve the hierarchy issue you're talking about. maybe segregation by gender.
    The only way to solve the hierarchy issue is to divide students by ability in my opinion.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #188
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    My original point was that one does not have the fundimental right to vote per-se, and you counter point was that one does have the fundimental right to vote per-se.

    I was not speaking of regonal elections, and neither were you.

    You only began adding qualifyers and moving the goal posts after you were challanged.

    Nice try though.
    How did I move the goal posts. you made a logical error in this post:


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If it were a fundimental right then you would have the right to vote for President.

    But you don't, so it's not.
    By claiming that the inability to vote for president implies that you do not have a fundamental right to vote. That claim is asinine, because even though you don't have a fundamental right to vote for the president, you DO have a fundamental right to vote whenever there is a regional election.

    Which is what I said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Voting is a fundamental right whenever an election is held in your region. Once an election occurs, the right to vote cannot be infringed for arbitrary reasons.

    The state can decide not to hold a popular election for President, but once it is offered, infringement cannot occur except for under certain circumstances. Such as felony convictions, which can also limit the fundamental right to bear arms.
    Since regional elections MUST constitutionally occur every two years (for congressman) then you DO have a fundamental right to vote.

    You do NOT have a fundamental right to vote for every single governmental official that attains office, though. The elections for certain offices are NOT a fundamental right.

    BUT, once a regional election for an office exists, due to the fundamental right to vote, everyone can vote, except under certain circumstances that are used to abridge other fundamental rights, such as the conviction of a felony.



    And what, you may ask, illuminates this fundamental right to vote?

    The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    Article 1 section two. The first line:

    The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
    So, everyone has a fundamental right to vote, for at least one office.

    thus a fundamental right to vote does indeed exist.

    This gets further illuminated in the 14th amendment:

    But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State
    The only right to vote is a regional, it doesn't matter if the office being held is a national office or not. That's because all elections are regional elections.

    Since there is a fundamental right to vote for ANY office (congressman), there exists a fundamental right to vote in any election held regionally for that region's representatives.

    Since the office of president is NOT a representational office, there is no point in trying to use that to refute the fundamental right to vote for one's representatives in government.

    What we have in regards to the office of "President" is the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to vote for our electors, or REPRESENTATIVES, in the electoral college in a regional election, if it is actually held.

    This right to vote for one's own representatives is a fundamental right.


    Edit: Removed something inapropriate. Sorry if you've seen it already, Jerry.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 03-13-09 at 05:43 PM.

  9. #189
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Very cool. I bet is was better than my experience.
    I gotta say, it wasn't bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The current form of schooling was partially necessary because of the huge amount of illiterate people in our country.

    Now the reverse is true. Nearly everyone is literate now.

    It's not as hard to imagine a custom education system.
    it is for me. parents don't care. good luck working with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The only way to solve the hierarchy issue is to divide students by ability in my opinion.
    college track and trade track, a la france? that always kind of creeped me out.

  10. #190
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    Re: Should voting be limited to Americans who pay Income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    it is for me. parents don't care. good luck working with that.
    The creme will rise to the top as always.

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    college track and trade track, a la france? that always kind of creeped me out.
    It does create a new hierarchy but one based on merit, instead of sports and popularity.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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