View Poll Results: Should civil unions replace marriage for legal purposes?

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  • The term civil union should replace the term marriage for legal purposes

    15 22.73%
  • Both terms, civil union (for gay couples)and marriage (for straight), should be used

    25 37.88%
  • The term marriage should be use equally for gay and straight couples

    21 31.82%
  • Gay couples should not be able to have the rights of marriage at all.

    5 7.58%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #51
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Let gays and straights use the word marriage. As long as the govt. is in the marriage business, they should recognize both without seperate but equal terminology.
    I say, let gays and straights use the word marriage, but only let government use the term civil union. groups that government does not deem eligible for one of this "civil unions" would not be obliged to apply for federal/state approval or recognition, but could get married if they wanted with no restrictions. let's face it: true love cannot be bound by any and all restrictions government imposes on it. it is only cheapened by them as people continue to appeal to government for affirmation of what they feel in their hearts. romance and the state do not mix.

  2. #52
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thank you for admitting that gay marriage is endangering my own personal right to marry. Gay marriage now achieves the criteria to be legal discrimination, and must never be allowed.
    It only endangers your right to have the government recognize it. It will not and cannot endanger your right to actually marry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I never had any such 'right to marry who I want', though. Never.

    Gays have always had each and every single right that I enjoy, and I have always been bound by each and every single restriction that gays have been.
    Who do you want to marry Jerry? A woman? Or a man? Please don't sidestep this question. There are only two possible choices. There are no "what if's", there are no "but's". Nothing but "man" or "woman". Next question. If you were only allowed to marry men would you object to it? Yes or no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There never was inequality, and to be fair, if marriage is abolished things would still be equal.
    Heterosexuals get to marry who they want. Homosexuals do not. That is not equality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So, we know that gay marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with equality, in any way, to any degree, at all whatsoever.
    Wrong. It has every thing to do with equality and rights. You just don't want to see the inequality that is there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No one's talking about religion, and I don't belong to a church even if we were.
    Look back through the thread. Religion has been mentioned quite a few times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Nice try at a Red Herring, but you'll need to come up with something I haven't heard over and over for years.

    The only thing new you bring to the table is a concession that gay marriage seeks to destroy my rights. Since your position destroys the gay marriage argument in toto, I care even less about 'gay rights' as a result.
    It's not a red herring. It's fact. It's truth. Its right. And if you had correctly red what I said you would know that it does nothing to destroy gay marriage arguement. If anything your response shows that it strengthens it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  3. #53
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I say, let gays and straights use the word marriage, but only let government use the term civil union. groups that government does not deem eligible for one of this "civil unions" would not be obliged to apply for federal/state approval or recognition, but could get married if they wanted with no restrictions. let's face it: true love cannot be bound by any and all restrictions government imposes on it. it is only cheapened by them as people continue to appeal to government for affirmation of what they feel in their hearts. romance and the state do not mix.
    What will changing the term the govt. uses really change?

    And how would you prevent people from calling it whatever they wanted to anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  4. #54
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If you want to use only the America's history then you have to include all the way back to 1492. That is as much a part of our history as before the US was actually formed.
    Not really. It had little effect on the founding of this nation. Why don't we just include Canada and South America while we are at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It is during this time that led up to the Revolutionary war. And is even taught as US history in schools. Which still puts it within the time line of before priests started officiating marriages.
    You are reaching big time on that one.

    Until 1775 when the colonies rebelled they were British colonies.

    I suppose next you want us to include the history of Britain into it?


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  5. #55
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Not really. It had little effect on the founding of this nation. Why don't we just include Canada and South America while we are at it.



    You are reaching big time on that one.

    Until 1775 when the colonies rebelled they were British colonies.

    I suppose next you want us to include the history of Britain into it?
    Nope not reaching. It's a fact that they teach about Columbus in American History. After all if Columbus hadn't come here then it's possible that there wouldn't even be a US. At least not the America that we know it as now.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  6. #56
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Nope not reaching. It's a fact that they teach about Columbus in American History. After all if Columbus hadn't come here then it's possible that there wouldn't even be a US. At least not the America that we know it as now.
    So I guess we can include England and it's history of religious marriage? I guess we can also include the native Americans whom 90% had a religious ceremony's to mark marriage. Since Eric the Red discovered the Americas long before Columbus we can include the history of Northern Europe as well?

    Yes. In the context of my argument you are indeed reaching.


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  7. #57
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    Re: Civil Unions

    The very fact that people are still clinging so tightly to this term, that's it's "mine, mine, all mine" (religious conservative types) is just depressing. This is a good example of why I don't congregate with other Christians, this kind of discriminatory garbage.

    And having spent years in church with other Christians, I know what is coming next. "How can you call yourself a Christian yet crap on our traditional Christian values, God said man shouldn't lay with another man." Well God also forgives and we all sin.

    Let's just cut the BS on this. This is nothing more than socially conservative religious territorial pissing. Nothing more. Get over yourselves.
    Hi. TOGTFO.

  8. #58
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So I guess we can include England and it's history of religious marriage? I guess we can also include the native Americans whom 90% had a religious ceremony's to mark marriage. Since Eric the Red discovered the Americas long before Columbus we can include the history of Northern Europe as well?

    Yes. In the context of my argument you are indeed reaching.
    You are trying to state that in our American history marriage has been about religion. I am showing you that this is not totally correct. What you are doing NOW is trying to move the goal posts to only when the USA was founded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have got to be kidding?



    In the history of this country it does exist.

    You mite want to bone up on your history just a little
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If I was claiming that or said anything even close you could have had a point. I did not.

    I said it is OUR history, that distinctly American history. Pick up a history book about this country and you could learn allot about our traditions.

    In the beginning of the history of the 13 colonies you could find a complete history of most families were? In the family Bible. This included Births and marriages. This went for many, many years and included Jewish and other religions including slaves at the time.

    This country may not have been formed as a Christian country, but it was formed by a huge undeniable majority of Christians, period. We are still the majority to this very day.

    Don't need a copyright or anything else for that.

    Our American history starts when Columbus landed. Everyone recognizes this. Hell we even have a holiday just for Columbus. And I'm not talking about Thanksgiving. Though that is another holiday that is about the early settlers..before the founding of the USA.

    Sorry but you do not get to move the goal posts. And you certainly don't get to rewrite American history.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #59
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You are trying to state that in our American history marriage has been about religion. I am showing you that this is not totally correct. What you are doing NOW is trying to move the goal posts to only when the USA was founded.
    I am not moving anything. I guess you don't understand sarcasm? I am showing how ridicules your claim is as to my comment. I was not referring to pre 13 colonies history at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Our American history starts when Columbus landed. Everyone recognizes this. Hell we even have a holiday just for Columbus. And I'm not talking about Thanksgiving. Though that is another holiday that is about the early settlers..before the founding of the USA.
    It does not change the fact that marriage in the US even at that time was a religious institution. So it has nothing at all to do with my comment or Hautys claim.

    PS you are confusing American History with US History.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Sorry but you do not get to move the goal posts. And you certainly don't get to rewrite American history.
    I did not have to move them. You are completely off track in reference to my comments.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-08-09 at 12:36 AM.


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  10. #60
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    PS you are confusing American History with US History.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If I was claiming that or said anything even close you could have had a point. I did not.

    I said it is OUR history, that distinctly American history. Pick up a history book about this country and you could learn allot about our traditions.

    In the beginning of the history of the 13 colonies you could find a complete history of most families were? In the family Bible. This included Births and marriages. This went for many, many years and included Jewish and other religions including slaves at the time.

    This country may not have been formed as a Christian country, but it was formed by a huge undeniable majority of Christians, period. We are still the majority to this very day.

    Don't need a copyright or anything else for that.
    Goal posts changed. You fail.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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