View Poll Results: Should civil unions replace marriage for legal purposes?

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  • The term civil union should replace the term marriage for legal purposes

    15 22.73%
  • Both terms, civil union (for gay couples)and marriage (for straight), should be used

    25 37.88%
  • The term marriage should be use equally for gay and straight couples

    21 31.82%
  • Gay couples should not be able to have the rights of marriage at all.

    5 7.58%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #241
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Civil UnionsDon't be a jerk.
    That's me... I'm one of those.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  2. #242
    Old Soul

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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You didn't shoot down anything... it appears that we can add delusional to your resume.
    Why don't you link that part, since I don't remember where it is and I didn't find it after searching twenty pages of this 24 page thread.
    my pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Like I said before, there is not one logical, rational or reasonable argument that would deny homosexuals (or anyone for that matter) the right to marry whomever they wanted to marry....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is only a sweeping generalization if it is untrue. Care to test it?
    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    a pair of siblings in west virginia wants to get married. allowing marriage between siblings is a dangerous medical precedent.
    conclusion: it is untrue, therefore it is a sweeping generalization, by your own criterion. a sweeping generalization is not an argument; that's what I meant when I said it had been "shot down."

    again I observe your continued avoidance of my real argument, which I stated in full, in favor of this bickering. I'm a little surprised that you're so hostile towards me now. I really thought we had something special. I'd even hoped that one day I might call you bodi. I suppose I must inure myself to disappointment.

  3. #243
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    my pleasure.







    conclusion: it is untrue, therefore it is a sweeping generalization, by your own criterion. a sweeping generalization is not an argument; that's what I meant when I said it had been "shot down."

    again I observe your continued avoidance of my real argument, which I stated in full, in favor of this bickering. I'm a little surprised that you're so hostile towards me now. I really thought we had something special. I'd even hoped that one day I might call you bodi. I suppose I must inure myself to disappointment.

    Hell, you can call me Bodi... a little disagreement strengthens a relationship as long as we compromise, understand one another, and move on with greater insight. And I understand your point, I just don't think that it is relevant enough to dismiss the premise of the argument. It just sounds too nit-picky and you aren't letting up. That is fine... I just get in a slam damn mood once in a while.

    To be honest, I have no freaking idea what you argument actually is, either I don't remember it or I never saw it. You say I saw it, so I must not remember it. That is why I would like the link so that we can move on from this little fracas...
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  4. #244
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Hell, you can call me Bodi... a little disagreement strengthens a relationship as long as we compromise, understand one another, and move on with greater insight. And I understand your point, I just don't think that it is relevant enough to dismiss the premise of the argument. It just sounds too nit-picky and you aren't letting up. That is fine... I just get in a slam damn mood once in a while.

    To be honest, I have no freaking idea what you argument actually is, either I don't remember it or I never saw it. You say I saw it, so I must not remember it. That is why I would like the link so that we can move on from this little fracas...
    I know you dislike nitpicky arguments and semantic games as much as I do, but as I've explained to you before I've gotten in the habit of paying very close attention to language when arguing gay marriage for two reasons:
    1. gay marriage supporters have a propensity to use semantics to their advantage when coming up with disingenuous emotional appeals. close attention to semantics and vocabulary are necessary to combat this.
    2. both sides like to refer to the dictionary and specific wording in the constitution, making each word used in a debate count a LOT. if an argument misuses language, the debate cannot or should not proceed until all misunderstandings are sorted out.

    it's true that I'm not letting up and rarely do, perhaps a character flaw but it sometimes pays to be meticulous.

    our previous conversation is buried somewhere in
    this beast, towards the beginning of the end. even captain courtesy says I'm not a bigot so I must have gotten something right. you're welcome to think I'm slow or delusional but be prepared to back it up with evidence or I'll get a martyr complex and be unbearable.

  5. #245
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I know you dislike nitpicky arguments and semantic games as much as I do, but as I've explained to you before I've gotten in the habit of paying very close attention to language when arguing gay marriage for two reasons:
    1. gay marriage supporters have a propensity to use semantics to their advantage when coming up with disingenuous emotional appeals. close attention to semantics and vocabulary are necessary to combat this.
    2. both sides like to refer to the dictionary and specific wording in the constitution, making each word used in a debate count a LOT. if an argument misuses language, the debate cannot or should not proceed until all misunderstandings are sorted out.

    it's true that I'm not letting up and rarely do, perhaps a character flaw but it sometimes pays to be meticulous.

    our previous conversation is buried somewhere in
    this beast, towards the beginning of the end. even captain courtesy says I'm not a bigot so I must have gotten something right. you're welcome to think I'm slow or delusional but be prepared to back it up with evidence or I'll get a martyr complex and be unbearable.

    174 pages! Argh... even starting at the back this is taking a while...

    Well, yeah... we didn't agree on gender discrimination.
    I thought your 'cigarette" analogy backed my point and you didn't like the 'mexican' analogy at all.

    It appears that I didn't really ignore you, or you I, as much as CC shut down the thread.



    Regarding you being a bigot, I said:

    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    I didn't call you a bigot, did I? You are debating a term, not being intolerant of people for no reason. This is a debate, and others in this thread ARE bigots, IMO... but you don't come across as one. I wondered for a bit, but not recently... Dang, I have been called a bigot when nothing can be further from the truth, so If I gave you that impression, or if I mistated myself, then I apologize to you for being rude


    And you said:

    Originally Posted by emdash
    I forgive you


    This seems top be the crux of the disagreement.


    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    Are you agreeing that the state is discriminating against certain people that want to get married, but are being denied the ability to do so then?
    Originally Posted by emdash
    the state offers benefits for couples composed of one man and one woman. the state does not offer the same benefits to different types of groups. that is discrimination in action. that being said, there is not a specific group of people designated by the state to receive fewer rights than everyone else. in this sense, the use of the word "discrimination" here is misleading, because the connotation suggests racism and other types of bigotry that are not necessarily taking place
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    Those denied same sex marriages are the people designated by the state to receive fewer rights than everyone else. Racism and sexism are not the only types of discrimination. Age, Race, Sex, Orientation, Religion, Etc...
    Originally Posted by emdash
    everyone is denied same sex marriages. similarly, everyone is allowed marriages. some
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    The fact that everyone is allowed to marry, in the man/woman marriage is irrelevant to this issue. I wish that people, and you, would stop saying this as if it holds any bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand, and that is legalizing same sex marriage and if same sex marriage effects you, us, in any way...
    Originally Posted by emdash
    I will reply to #1714 asap and explain
    We don't resolve anything and from what I can tell, you still don't have a logical argument denying homosexuals the right to marry a person of the same sex. You are saying what is, and playing semantic games regarding their "right" to marry, just not to marry a person of the same sex. I remember us getting close to a compromise, or understanding... but damn that Captain Courtesy! He shut it down.

    And here I am being a jerk to you... well, I guess the honey moon is over.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  6. #246
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    If a gender is being discriminated against, then it is discrimination? How is this not obvious?
    Originally Posted by emdash
    there are only two genders. that I'm aware of.

    Uncle Sam: it is now illegal for women to smoke cigarettes.
    Uncle Sam: oh yeah, and men can't either.
    Bodhisattva: you're so sexist uncle sam, waaa. ()
    Uncle Sam: which sex am I discriminating against?
    Bodhisattva: both!!1

    ok well that is quite humorous if I do say so myself but you get the idea. that's how I'm seeing your argument atm, please set me straight. (no pun intended, oh man I'm on a roll.)
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    I guess that I am not sure how, if it is discrimination to one or both genders, it is not simply "gender discrimination" and that you don't agree...
    Originally Posted by emdash
    if it is gender Discrimination (big d), it should be obvious which gender is being treated like crap and which gender is not, since there are only 2. otherwise it is only gender discrimination (little d).
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    Big D little d, is there a difference?
    I have never heard that it was ok to discriminate with a little d as long as you weren't using the big D...
    Originally Posted by emdash
    I will reply to #1714 asap and explain

    If one gender is being discriminated against, then what is your point about "two genders"?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  7. #247
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    Re: Civil Unions

    You never get to say why you think that the mexican analogy doesn't work. Here is your big chance...


    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    If a gender is being discriminated against, then it is discrimination? How is this not obvious?
    Can't a Mexican discriminate against a white guy and a black guy at the same time?
    Originally Posted by emdash
    your racist mexican analogy doesn't work, because it involves more than two races. there are only two genders.
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    And I know people that are racists towards EVERY SINGLE RACE other than their own...
    so the analogy works just fine when modified in that way...
    Originally Posted by emdash
    I will reply to #1714 asap and explain why your racist mexican analogy is even worse now that you've modified it.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  8. #248
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Give us marriage, give gay couples a civil union if it's going to cause a hissy. What's wrong with that?
    Purrs,
    Pookie
    No matter how much the cats fight, there always seems to be plenty of kittens.
    ~ Abraham Lincoln

  9. #249
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Give us marriage, give gay couples a civil union if it's going to cause a hissy. What's wrong with that?
    Purrs,
    Pookie
    What is your REASONING regarding being in favor of discriminating against Homosexual Marriage?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #250
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I remember us getting close to a compromise, or understanding... but damn that Captain Courtesy! He shut it down.
    That's right, blame me for you two not being able to settle an argument.

    It was either shut the thread down, or watch it shut DP down.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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