View Poll Results: Should civil unions replace marriage for legal purposes?

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  • The term civil union should replace the term marriage for legal purposes

    15 22.73%
  • Both terms, civil union (for gay couples)and marriage (for straight), should be used

    25 37.88%
  • The term marriage should be use equally for gay and straight couples

    21 31.82%
  • Gay couples should not be able to have the rights of marriage at all.

    5 7.58%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #131
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Historically in the USA that is what it has meant, and so far still means. So much so the government tried to go before congress (a waist of time for certain) to have it legally and permanently mean exactly that.

    Sorry man, you are indeed wrong.
    I know that is what it means, I also never indicated otherwise so I aint wrong about ****, dog.

    What you are not getting is that marriage is a word/term. It is only a word/term. Marriage has many meanings, and until people (you, for example) realize this, they are only going to succeed in making illogical and bigoted arguments that offer nothing regarding solutions and everything about unnecessary division.

    See, I can, and have, offered proof of this. You have offered proof of nothing that would contradict it either. Sorry... *shrugs*
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  2. #132
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    watch the ad homs, will you?
    Do they do tricks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  3. #133
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I know that is what it means, I also never indicated otherwise so I aint wrong about ****, dog.
    Not in relation to what I am talking about, or so it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    What you are not getting is that marriage is a word/term. It is only a word/term. Marriage has many meanings, and until people (you, for example) realize this, they are only going to succeed in making illogical and bigoted arguments that offer nothing regarding solutions and everything about unnecessary division.
    Fact: The majority of US Citizens see it exactly how I do. It is a religious institution and recognized as such and has been for the history of this nation. It is part of our traditions and heritage. To deny this as you are trying to do is nothing but a fallacy.

    What this has to do with my argument being illogical and bigoted is absolutely ridicules. I assume you never read my initial position in this thread?

    All you have shown thus far is that while understanding my premise to a degree, you do not understand my statement and it's limited meaning in the context of my responce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    See, I can, and have, offered proof of this. You have offered proof of nothing that would contradict it either. Sorry... *shrugs*
    You have offered nothing but an opinion on my post to someone else. You have no evidence at all to disprove marriage in this country is not a religious institution. You offered a definition that has absolutely nothing to do with my historical statement, period.


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  4. #134
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes it did...and failed. Can you tell me why it failed?
    Because congress made the right choice not waisting our federal tax dollars and time on what is a state level issue.

    We need less Federal government not more.


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  5. #135
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Fact: The majority of US Citizens see it exactly how I do. It is a religious institution and recognized as such and has been for the history of this nation. It is part of our traditions and heritage. To deny this as you are trying to do is nothing but a fallacy.
    Then you can and will provide your evidence, right? Because almost everbody I know, family, friends, etc. were married when they had a non-religious ceremony or when they went down to the local courthouse, like my wife and I did *as well as others that I know) and were "married". It had nothing to do with religion. A very large percentage of those that I know are not religious in any way, and others that are did not have a religious ceremony.

    Without evidence, all you are doing is being guilty of casting about "opinions" just like you accuse me of.


    What this has to do with my argument being illogical and bigoted is absolutely ridicules. I assume you never read my initial position in this thread?
    Well, it is certainly an illogical argument that you have, though I would not call it bigoted since I don't know if you want to deny homosexuals the right to marry for a reason other than a bigoted one. You are probably a really nice guy...



    All you have shown thus far is that while understanding my premise to a degree, you do not understand my statement and it's limited meaning in the context of my responce.
    I think that I completely understand what you are saying... I simply don't agree.
    If you could display how I am misunderstanding you, that would help.



    You have offered nothing but an opinion on my post to someone else. You have no evidence at all to disprove marriage in this country is not a religious institution. You offered a definition that has absolutely nothing to do with my historical statement, period.[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  6. #136
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Then you can and will provide your evidence, right? Because almost everbody I know, family, friends, etc. were married when they had a non-religious ceremony or when they went down to the local courthouse, like my wife and I did *as well as others that I know) and were "married". It had nothing to do with religion. A very large percentage of those that I know are not religious in any way, and others that are did not have a religious ceremony.

    Without evidence, all you are doing is being guilty of casting about "opinions" just like you accuse me of.
    You have got to be kidding?

    "Same-sex marriage opponents in California placed a state constitutional amendment known as Proposition 8 on the November ballot for the purpose of restoring an opposite-sex definition of marriage; Florida and Arizona also placed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage on the November 2008 ballot." What message does this send? All 3 passed.

    The map below should show you the grim picture of same sex marriage in this country.

    File:Samesex marriage in USA.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By far the largest lobby against gay marriage is from religious groups.

    Do I really need to post anymore than that? It is or so I thought common knowledge.

    Your anecdotal evidence means little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Well, it is certainly an illogical argument that you have, though I would not call it bigoted since I don't know if you want to deny homosexuals the right to marry for a reason other than a bigoted one. You are probably a really nice guy...
    Well at least you admit you have no clue as to what I am talking about or what it was in reference to. If you understood the conversation from the beginning, we would not even be having this silly debate. Where your assumptions and anecdotal evidence mean nothing.

    My only contention is that in this country from the beginning marriage (good or bad) is and is still seen as a religious institution by the majority. You and the other guy read way more into it without doing any reading on the full discussion in context. Shame on you.

    Here is my first post in this thread...

    "Being a Christian I feel marriage is between a man and a woman. Call me old fashioned, but that is the way I see it.

    I also think homosexual couples in this country are being discriminated against because of government involvement in marriage.

    I try very hard not to let my religious morals interfere with this a secular government and it's laws. So I think civil unions for gay couples with the full rights of married straight couples would rectify that. Barring of course government getting the hell out of marriage all together. Which is the best solution.
    " - Blackdog

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think that I completely understand what you are saying... I simply don't agree.
    If you could display how I am misunderstanding you, that would help.
    Pretty much shown above.

    God bless and I am off to bed.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-08-09 at 11:33 PM.


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  7. #137
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have got to be kidding?

    "Same-sex marriage opponents in California placed a state constitutional amendment known as Proposition 8 on the November ballot for the purpose of restoring an opposite-sex definition of marriage; Florida and Arizona also placed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage on the November 2008 ballot." What message does this send? All 3 passed.

    The map below should show you the grim picture of same sex marriage in this country.

    File:Samesex marriage in USA.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By far the largest lobby against gay marriage is from religious groups.

    Do I really need to post anymore than that? It is or so I thought common knowledge.

    Your anecdotal evidence means little.



    Well at least you admit you have no clue as to what I am talking about or what it was in reference to. If you understood the conversation from the beginning, we would not even be having this silly debate. Where your assumptions and anecdotal evidence mean nothing.

    My only contention is that in this country from the beginning marriage (good or bad) is and is still seen as a religious institution by the majority. You and the other guy read way more into it without doing any reading on the full discussion in context. Shame on you.

    Here is my first post in this thread...

    "Being a Christian I feel marriage is between a man and a woman. Call me old fashioned, but that is the way I see it.

    I also think homosexual couples in this country are being discriminated against because of government involvement in marriage.

    I try very hard not to let my religious morals interfere with this a secular government and it's laws. So I think civil unions for gay couples with the full rights of married straight couples would rectify that. Barring of course government getting the hell out of marriage all together. Which is the best solution.
    " - Blackdog



    Pretty much shown above.
    So why not just make the religious argument in support of gay marriage?

  8. #138
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So why not just make the religious argument in support of gay marriage?
    Because according to scripture God hates the sin, if not the sinner. So although I can agree in a secular government for equal treatment under the law, as a Christian I cannot and will not condone the sin.

    Jesus never got involved in the politics of Rome. I try and do much the same politically with my religious morals.

    Religion and politics make evil bed fellows.

    God bless and goodnight to you also. I will respond in the morning if you put forward something else.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-08-09 at 11:41 PM.


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  9. #139
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have got to be kidding?

    "Same-sex marriage opponents in California placed a state constitutional amendment known as Proposition 8 on the November ballot for the purpose of restoring an opposite-sex definition of marriage; Florida and Arizona also placed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage on the November 2008 ballot." What message does this send? All 3 passed.

    The map below should show you the grim picture of same sex marriage in this country.

    File:Samesex marriage in USA.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By far the largest lobby against gay marriage is from religious groups.

    Do I really need to post anymore than that? It is or so I thought common knowledge.

    Your anecdotal evidence means little.



    Well at least you admit you have no clue as to what I am talking about or what it was in reference to. If you understood the conversation from the beginning, we would not even be having this silly debate. Where your assumptions and anecdotal evidence mean nothing.

    My only contention is that in this country from the beginning marriage (good or bad) is and is still seen as a religious institution by the majority. You and the other guy read way more into it without doing any reading on the full discussion in context. Shame on you.

    Here is my first post in this thread...

    "Being a Christian I feel marriage is between a man and a woman. Call me old fashioned, but that is the way I see it.

    I also think homosexual couples in this country are being discriminated against because of government involvement in marriage.

    I try very hard not to let my religious morals interfere with this a secular government and it's laws. So I think civil unions for gay couples with the full rights of married straight couples would rectify that. Barring of course government getting the hell out of marriage all together. Which is the best solution.
    " - Blackdog



    Pretty much shown above.

    God bless and I am off to bed.
    All good. So it is just about the word marriage then.
    I think that it should not matter and you do. Disagreement.
    Ultimately though, since you and I agree on the rest,
    and most importantly you don't want to deny any right
    other than using the word marriage, which you probably
    don't think of as a right and that is fine, then it is all good.

    Nothing bigoted at all... and you sir, are an open person IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #140
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Because congress made the right choice not waisting our federal tax dollars and time on what is a state level issue.

    We need less Federal government not more.
    Marriage cannot just be a state level issue because it is recognized by the federal government and across all states. If it wasn't then you would have a case.

    When something affects all of the states then the federal government must make sure that it is applied equally across all states. That is their job.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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