View Poll Results: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

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  • Agree, it's "4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history'

    3 27.27%
  • Disagree, it's peas compared to tax hikes in the past

    8 72.73%
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Thread: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

  1. #1
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    4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Just curious, how many of you think that a 4.6% increase in marginal tax rates on the highest tax bracket is "one of the biggest tax hikes in US history?"
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Just curious, how many of you think that a 4.6% increase in marginal tax rates on the highest tax bracket is "one of the biggest tax hikes in US history?"
    Based on the amount of money this is compared to in the past, I voted yes.
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Based on the amount of money this is compared to in the past, I voted yes.
    You can't go with the amount of money because, due to inflation over the years, you cannot make a meaningful comparison.

    You have to go with percentage of income. The record, based on percentage of income, is held by FDR, who increased the highest tax bracket to 90%.
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Based on the amount of money this is compared to in the past, I voted yes.
    Besides the fact that danarhea again proved that good economics and statistics is thoroughly dead here as indicated by your argument, the 4.6% is a tiny tax hike in history. And if we want to look at your reasoning, the tax hike here even on dollars is small compared to the first income tax which had a benchmark of zero.
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Besides the fact that danarhea again proved that good economics and statistics is thoroughly dead here as indicated by your argument, the 4.6% is a tiny tax hike in history. And if we want to look at your reasoning, the tax hike here even on dollars is small compared to the first income tax which had a benchmark of zero.
    Ehh, that is debatable. Millionaires per capita (or the 1940's equivalent in real dollars) is probably much much much higher today. Therefore the total tax revenue is quite valid.

    Most likely, this tax hike represents one of the biggest income transfers in real dollars. Although i am only speculating.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Ehh, that is debatable. Millionaires per capita (or the 1940's equivalent in real dollars) is probably much much much higher today. Therefore the total tax revenue is quite valid.
    But if we're going purely by total tax revenue, merely because it collects a seemingly record amount (which it probably won't) that money is not inflated adjusted. To really argue the point on total tax revenues, we need to inflation adjust the amounts collected by other tax collections. Remember that WWII debt was over $2 trillion in today's dollars, much of that paid with tax hikes and debt. God knows just how much total tax revenue the jump to 91% back in the 30s brought in when we dollar adjust it.

    Most likely, this tax hike represents one of the biggest income transfers in real dollars. Although i am only speculating.
    I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure that inflation since the tax cut has increased more then 4.6%. Raising taxes 4.6% on money that has been degraded by more then 4.6% doesn't suggest that it is one of the biggest income transfers in real dollars. What value are we giving to the real dollar?

    If we raise your taxes 5% on dollars that have degraded 10% due to inflation, how many real dollars have we collected?
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But if we're going purely by total tax revenue, merely because it collects a seemingly record amount (which it probably won't) that money is not inflated adjusted. To really argue the point on total tax revenues, we need to inflation adjust the amounts collected by other tax collections. Remember that WWII debt was over $2 trillion in today's dollars, much of that paid with tax hikes and debt. God knows just how much total tax revenue the jump to 91% back in the 30s brought in when we dollar adjust it.
    You are missing the point though, as inflation is not the issue. What if only one person was taxed 90%, although the tax increase was hiked from 50%-90%? There are more high income earners now than there were then.



    I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure that inflation since the tax cut has increased more then 4.6%. Raising taxes 4.6% on money that has been degraded by more then 4.6% doesn't suggest that it is one of the biggest income transfers in real dollars. What value are we giving to the real dollar?

    If we raise your taxes 5% on dollars that have degraded 10% due to inflation, how many real dollars have we collected?
    Again you are missing the point on inflation. It is not the tax increase that is important, it is the amount of currency transferred per capita. If you want to use cpi deflators, be my guest; although it is quite unnecessary. After the great depression, how many high income earners were being taxed over 90%, 80%, 70% etc...?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    The huge hike will be jacking up the dividend tax-which is now around 45% to over 65%
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You are missing the point though, as inflation is not the issue. What if only one person was taxed 90%, although the tax increase was hiked from 50%-90%? There are more high income earners now than there were then.
    Actually inflation is the issue. But in terms of the # of millionaires, it's far more dependent upon income rather then number. If a hundred millionaires made $500,000 and were taxed at 39.6% of that at the highest rate, that would be less then 10 billionaires making $500 million apiece being taxed at the highest marginal rate of 91%. The # of people actually isn't that relevant. It's the amount of earned income.

    Again you are missing the point on inflation. It is not the tax increase that is important, it is the amount of currency transferred per capita.
    It is when you want to talk about real dollars. Nominal, sure it's probably one of the largest. REAL however is another animal all together.

    If you want to use cpi deflators, be my guest; although it is quite unnecessary. After the great depression, how many high income earners were being taxed over 90%, 80%, 70% etc...?
    Don't know. Hence why we need more data. But purely from a % of income, this cannot be one of the highest given historical tax rates.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #10
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The huge hike will be jacking up the dividend tax-which is now around 45% to over 65%
    Where are you getting that? Right now the qualified dividend rate is either 0% or 15% depending on your AGI. Last I checked, Obama wants it to go to 28% where it was before the cut.

    And unqualified dividends are ordinary.

    Where are you getting your information from?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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