View Poll Results: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

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  • Agree, it's "4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history'

    3 27.27%
  • Disagree, it's peas compared to tax hikes in the past

    8 72.73%
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Thread: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

  1. #11
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    Don't know. Hence why we need more data. But purely from a % of income, this cannot be one of the highest given historical tax rates.
    Then what was the point of your thread? Surely we do not need a poll to decipher whether we think 4.6% is greater than 10%. From a sheer quantitative perspective, adjusting for inflation, this was one of the biggest tax hikes ever. As in a large income transfer.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Where are you getting that? Right now the qualified dividend rate is either 0% or 15% depending on your AGI. Last I checked, Obama wants it to go to 28% where it was before the cut.

    And unqualified dividends are ordinary.

    Where are you getting your information from?
    I guess you forget that owners of a corporation pay are taxed TWICE on corporate profits.
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  3. #13
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess you forget that owners of a corporation pay are taxed TWICE on corporate profits.
    Well if you want to calculate it that way, you're still mathematically wrong.

    Corporate tax rates, while having much lower thresholds top out at 35% (well, stated). Therefore highest tax bracket would see profits first taxed at 35% and then at 15%, for a total of 50%.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #14
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Then what was the point of your thread? Surely we do not need a poll to decipher whether we think 4.6% is greater than 10%.
    You might want to ask Aquapub. He's avoiding numerous posts all asking if he thinks that's true.

    From a sheer quantitative perspective, adjusting for inflation, this was one of the biggest tax hikes ever. As in a large income transfer.
    Not quite. Not adjusted for inflation, it's on a nominal dollar value a large tax hike. But nominal dollars don't really tell us all that much. Furthermore, nominal dollar measures will constantly be increasing, meaning every tax hike of material size will be of the largest. It's like Hollywood's claim about movies making more money. None of it deals with inflation pegging.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well if you want to calculate it that way, you're still mathematically wrong.

    Corporate tax rates, while having much lower thresholds top out at 35% (well, stated). Therefore highest tax bracket would see profits first taxed at 35% and then at 15%, for a total of 50%.


    Actually it works like this

    I own 10% of a company that makes a million

    so my pre tax share is 100k

    35% tax on that and its down to 65K

    15% tax on 65K is about 9750

    leaving me 55250

    so the rate is about 44%

    now jack up dividend taxes to almost 40% like Bamboob wants to do

    what is the rate gonna be
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 03-06-09 at 12:08 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Actually it works like this

    I own 10% of a company that makes a million

    so my pre tax share is 100k

    35% tax on that and its down to 65K

    15% tax on 65K is about 9750

    leaving me 55250

    so the rate is about 44%

    now jack up dividend taxes to almost 40% like Bamboob wants to do

    what is the rate gonna be
    Out of curiosity, why did you decide to structure as a corporation rather then a partnership like organization?

    It seems to me that you could have done thing to minimize your tax liability. Better then complaining.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not quite. Not adjusted for inflation, it's on a nominal dollar value a large tax hike. But nominal dollars don't really tell us all that much. Furthermore, nominal dollar measures will constantly be increasing, meaning every tax hike of material size will be of the largest. It's like Hollywood's claim about movies making more money. None of it deals with inflation pegging.
    Your assumptions cause you to shoot yourself in the foot. There are more people now, and workers are more productive, hence we have more millionaires (adjusting for inflation), or a greater proportion of people in the higher tax bracket. That era was more like Moscow is now; more billionaires live there than NYC, yet NYC is exponentially more wealthy.

    So lets say Moscow has higher progressive tax rates. Do you really believe their highest tax bracket would take in more revenue than our new top bracket rate?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Your assumptions cause you to shoot yourself in the foot. There are more people now, and workers are more productive, hence we have more millionaires (adjusting for inflation), or a greater proportion of people in the higher tax bracket. That era was more like Moscow is now; more billionaires live there than NYC, yet NYC is exponentially more wealthy.
    But again, as you choose to ignore in my post post, the issue is actually about tax revenues. As stated before a 4.6% increase on 100 millionaires all making $500,000 in earned income will bring in significently less then a 52% increase on 10 billionaires making $500 million in earned income. Merely because you have more rich people does not equate to greater tax revenues and tax revenues seems to be how we're discussing whether or not the 4.6% increase is really one of the largest in US history.

    So lets say Moscow has higher progressive tax rates. Do you really believe their highest tax bracket would take in more revenue than our new top bracket rate?
    Depends how high their highest bracket is.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #19
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But again, as you choose to ignore in my post post, the issue is actually about tax revenues. As stated before a 4.6% increase on 100 millionaires all making $500,000 in earned income will bring in significently less then a 52% increase on 10 billionaires making $500 million in earned income.
    yes, but this is highly unrealistic. The economy is larger than it was then. At least 5 times the size if you factor inflation. Do a gdp/capita deflator from 2007 dollars to 1950 dollars. Reply with your findings, although i suspect it to be no greater than $9,000.

    Merely because you have more rich people does not equate to greater tax revenues and tax revenues seems to be how we're discussing whether or not the 4.6% increase is really one of the largest in US history.
    Then prove your point by locating a time in history, such as the 1940's or 50's, which provided more real tax revenue dollars than this instance. I believe the largest (in sheer quantity adjusting for inflation) was during the Clinton administration, although this could potentially be the biggest if the recession is averted in under 5 years.



    Depends how high their highest bracket is.
    LOL, I believe it is 45%. I highly doubt their highest bracket takes in more revenue than our highest bracket
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #20
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    Re: 4.6% tax hike = one of the biggest tax hikes in US history

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Just curious, how many of you think that a 4.6% increase in marginal tax rates on the highest tax bracket is "one of the biggest tax hikes in US history?"
    What a silly poll.. Where is the "other" option?

    I voted "none of the above", but the tax hike is small compared to what it needs to be for the US to get out of their horrible economic mess and near(/ongoing) bankruptcy.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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