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Do you support a new ban on 'assault weapons'?

Do you support a new ban on 'assault weapons'?


  • Total voters
    37
Its already been made public that The Obama looks to reinstate an 'assault weapon' ban:

ABC News: Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

Do you support a new ban on 'assault weapons'?

If you answered 'yes', please answer these questions:

-What positive effect did the 1994-2004 AWB have on crime?
-If you cannot specify a verifiable positive effect, then why do you support another ban?


<poll pending>
Choices:
Yes
No

I said yes for two reasons. First, AWB aside (though some reduction in crime was reported in the figures), there have been no repeats of the 1997 North Hollywood shoot-out since the first ban. Secondly, such weapons serve no purpose other than murder. How many people hunt with an assault rifle or even target shoot. Standard bolt-action rifles are 10-times more accurate and handguns are much more used in target shooting. Assault rifles are used for compound protection by insane zealots, so I have no problem making it more difficult for them to own them.
 
I voted yes. Seems like a step towards sanity to me. We can debate the smallness or largeness of the step itself but whatever the general consensus, I can't see how the step should be avoided altogether.
 
I said yes for two reasons. First, AWB aside (though some reduction in crime was reported in the figures), there have been no repeats of the 1997 North Hollywood shoot-out since the first ban.
Factual error and fallacy:
-The AWB did not affect full-auto weapons such as those used in that event.
-Even if it sdid, there's no way to show that the ban prevented another shooting like that

Secondly, such weapons serve no purpose other than murder.
Factual error
'Assault weapons' can be effctively used for just about any legitimate purpose on emight have for a gun.

How many people hunt with an assault rifle or even target shoot.
factual errors and fallacy
-I shoot competitively wity my 'assault weapons', as do tens of thousands of others.
-There isnt any reason an 'assualt weapon' cannot be used to hunt as effectibely as any other weapon you;d hunt with
-The reason for protecting the right to arms has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting.

Standard bolt-action rifles are 10-times more accurate
Factual error.
The accuracy of many 'assault weapons' compares favorably to and may exceed that of a standard bolt-action rifle -- as anyone thats fired in service rifle class from the 1000yd line.

Assault rifles are used for compound protection by insane zealots, so I have no problem making it more difficult for them to own them.
I wonder: now that you know that the stated basis for your support of the ban has been shown to be factually and logically flawed -- will you change your mind?
 
Not according to the law.


Not according to the law and the SCotUS.

Well, SCOTUS is wrong, and I have shown in the past how wrong they have been as well...

It is what it is...
 
That's not a bad way to look at it...

Akhil Reed Amar of Yale Law-a very liberal but honest scholar sort of says the same thing. However, for the collective need to be met, the individual right has to exist
 
Ok... I don't think that it should either, as long as those that own guns realize that they are in the militia and gun owners realize that it is a collective right.

rights are never "collective".

Groups never have more "rights" than any individual in them.

Oh, and by the way, how many fingers fit into a trigger guard?
 
I said yes for two reasons. First, AWB aside (though some reduction in crime was reported in the figures), there have been no repeats of the 1997 North Hollywood shoot-out since the first ban. Secondly, such weapons serve no purpose other than murder. How many people hunt with an assault rifle or even target shoot. Standard bolt-action rifles are 10-times more accurate and handguns are much more used in target shooting. Assault rifles are used for compound protection by insane zealots, so I have no problem making it more difficult for them to own them.

The purpose of the Second Amendment is certainly to allow hunting.

To allow hunting of politicians when they get uppity.
 
I said yes for two reasons. First, AWB aside (though some reduction in crime was reported in the figures), there have been no repeats of the 1997 North Hollywood shoot-out since the first ban. Secondly, such weapons serve no purpose other than murder. How many people hunt with an assault rifle or even target shoot. Standard bolt-action rifles are 10-times more accurate and handguns are much more used in target shooting. Assault rifles are used for compound protection by insane zealots, so I have no problem making it more difficult for them to own them.

what a moronic comment. Guns that you hoplophobes call "assault weapons" include the most popular olympic target pistols and the dominant firearm at the Camp Perry National Rifle Championships.


People who want to get rid of our rights are the main reason we need weapons that are useful for killing.
 
Factual error and fallacy:
-The AWB did not affect full-auto weapons such as those used in that event.
-Even if it sdid, there's no way to show that the ban prevented another shooting like that


Factual error
'Assault weapons' can be effctively used for just about any legitimate purpose on emight have for a gun.


factual errors and fallacy
-I shoot competitively wity my 'assault weapons', as do tens of thousands of others.
-There isnt any reason an 'assualt weapon' cannot be used to hunt as effectibely as any other weapon you;d hunt with
-The reason for protecting the right to arms has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting.


Factual error.
The accuracy of many 'assault weapons' compares favorably to and may exceed that of a standard bolt-action rifle -- as anyone thats fired in service rifle class from the 1000yd line.


I wonder: now that you know that the stated basis for your support of the ban has been shown to be factually and logically flawed -- will you change your mind?



How did you "factually," rebut any of my assertions. All you did was reassert your own points. I will put my Savage tactical against any assault rifle any day of the week. The only possible rifle that could compare would be the Springfield M1, which is nowhere near an assault rifle.

As to preserving the rights of arms, lets be realistic, banning assault rifles is a far cry from taking away the right to bear arms. That is like saying placing limitations on any individual right is taking away all rights. Do I change my position? I do believe if harsher laws were placed on criminals, then no further gun control would be needed, but I also see the point of view of the police, for instance, that do not want to face an AK-47 as they serve a warrant.
 
How did you "factually," rebut any of my assertions. All you did was reassert your own points. I will put my Savage tactical against any assault rifle any day of the week. The only possible rifle that could compare would be the Springfield M1, which is nowhere near an assault rifle.

As to preserving the rights of arms, lets be realistic, banning assault rifles is a far cry from taking away the right to bear arms. That is like saying placing limitations on any individual right is taking away all rights. Do I change my position? I do believe if harsher laws were placed on criminals, then no further gun control would be needed, but I also see the point of view of the police, for instance, that do not want to face an AK-47 as they serve a warrant.

More stupidity-someone willing to commit the capital crime of shooting a police officer is not going to obey stupid gun laws. Any cop who tells me I cannot be trusted to own the same weapons he is issued should be stripped of his badge and office

Do you believe that a ban on say the Jewish Faith is not taking away my first amendment rights because I could attend a Methodist CHapel or Orthodox cathederal?
 
As to preserving the rights of arms, lets be realistic, banning assault rifles is a far cry from taking away the right to bear arms.

No, it's not. The intent of the Second Amendment is to ensure the people have arms available to them to oppose any effort to impose tyranny the politicians might try to impose with a standing army.

Therefore the people have to have ready for them the same weapons those troops would use. And that means fully automatic weapons. Otherwise they're going to face fully automatic weapons armed with muzzle-loading squirrel guns, cuz, really that's all ya need to put meat in the pot, right?
 
No, it's not. The intent of the Second Amendment is to ensure the people have arms available to them to oppose any effort to impose tyranny the politicians might try to impose with a standing army.

Therefore the people have to have ready for them the same weapons those troops would use. And that means fully automatic weapons. Otherwise they're going to face fully automatic weapons armed with muzzle-loading squirrel guns, cuz, really that's all ya need to put meat in the pot, right?


You guys really, really misunderstand the Founding Fathers. A militia in their eyes was not a neighborhood clan of guys with guns running to fight the tyrants of government. It was the right of each state to have a militia or national guard as the case presently is. By allowing for this provision, the founders built in a security to states rights from the federal government they hesitantly created. But all of the good ol'boys envision the founders thinking of the 80's movie Red Dawn, where average people run to the streets to defeat the Reds!!!!

Do you have the right to own a tank or a F-16? No, so you will not have equal force with your M16, will you?
 
More stupidity-someone willing to commit the capital crime of shooting a police officer is not going to obey stupid gun laws. Any cop who tells me I cannot be trusted to own the same weapons he is issued should be stripped of his badge and office

Do you believe that a ban on say the Jewish Faith is not taking away my first amendment rights because I could attend a Methodist CHapel or Orthodox cathederal?


By your argument then, marijuana should be legal, because it grows in nature like tobacco and may have harmful effects, but it is still there and should be used because we may want it over tobacco. To keep it illegal is to take away rights. Right?
 
By your argument then, marijuana should be legal, because it grows in nature like tobacco and may have harmful effects, but it is still there and should be used because we may want it over tobacco. To keep it illegal is to take away rights. Right?

...I think so. :neutral:
 
Akhil Reed Amar of Yale Law-a very liberal but honest scholar sort of says the same thing. However, for the collective need to be met, the individual right has to exist

Sort of like a individual fish belongs to a school of fish? That makes sense...
 
rights are never "collective".

Groups never have more "rights" than any individual in them.

Oh, and by the way, how many fingers fit into a trigger guard?

Rights can be collective, a bunch of individual rights together...

Oh, and by the way... are you trying to be cute about something?
Who the **** cares and why are you asking? :lol:
 
You guys really, really misunderstand the Founding Fathers.

No....not really.

Someone does.

Guess who?

A militia in their eyes was not a neighborhood clan of guys with guns running to fight the tyrants of government. It was the right of each state to have a militia or national guard as the case presently is.

Nope, not even close.

The state national guards are adjuncts of the Standing Army, not militias in the sense used by the people that wrote and ratified the Second Amendment.

By allowing for this provision, the founders built in a security to states rights from the federal government they hesitantly created. But all of the good ol'boys envision the founders thinking of the 80's movie Red Dawn, where average people run to the streets to defeat the Reds!!!!

You could try reading the Federalist Papers, sometime.:roll:

try #28.

"All candid and intelligent men must, upon due consideration, acknowledge that the principle of the objection is equally applicable to either of the two cases; and that whether we have one government for all the States, or different governments for different parcels of them, or even if there should be an entire separation of the States, there might sometimes be a necessity to make use of a force constituted differently from the militia, to preserve the peace of the community and to maintain the just authority of the laws against those violent invasions of them which amount to insurrections and rebellions. "

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."


Do you have the right to own a tank or a F-16? No, so you will not have equal force with your M16, will you?

Tanks? Yes, I do have the right. Read the second Amendment sometime. It doesn't say "guns", it says "arms".

Airplanes? The Constitution reserves the authority to issue letters of marque to Congress. One can thereby assume that it would extend reasonably to any concept of "air piracy" also.

Having tanks and M16's would be sufficient to get the politicians back in line.
 
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Tanks? Yes, I do have the right. Read the second Amendment sometime. It doesn't say "guns", it says "arms".


We either have the right to any and all arms or not, this whole "arms" thing where it allows for some things and not for others...

Just - Doesn't - Wash
 
Rights can be collective, a bunch of individual rights together...

Nope.

A thousand people can form a corporation to hire a single lawyer to represent them in court.

Those thousand people, that corporation, that lawyer, have no more rights than any individual.

Only one finger fits in the trigger guard, the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right.
 
Nope.

A thousand people can form a corporation to hire a single lawyer to represent them in court.

Those thousand people, that corporation, that lawyer, have no more rights than any individual.

Only one finger fits in the trigger guard, the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right.


It is an individual right created to form a collective right. It is both, if anything...
 
It is an individual right created to form a collective right. It is both, if anything...

Just in case you missed....I said collective rights do not exist, and proved it.

Name one "collective" right not possessed by an individual.
 
We either have the right to any and all arms or not, this whole "arms" thing where it allows for some things and not for others...

Just - Doesn't - Wash

It's not supposed to wash, it's supposed to shoot.

If you want to wash with your arms, go to the river with the other old ladies and find a clean flat rock.

How'd you manage to get moderator status when you deliberately ignore the points made in a post and focus on a minor issue at the end merely to sound as if you responded to the post?
 
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Just in case you missed....I said collective rights do not exist, and proved it.

Name one "collective" right not possessed by an individual.

I didn't say that there were any... I think that you are extremely arrogant, and it is funny, abeit a bit sad.
 
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