View Poll Results: Founding Fathers. Terrorists?

Voters
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  • Yes. Terrorists.

    4 21.05%
  • Nope. Heros.

    14 73.68%
  • The definition of terrorist must be too broad.

    3 15.79%
  • We must make more of certian elements considered terrorism.

    1 5.26%
  • We must fund more of classes like these.

    1 5.26%
  • Why are taxpayers funding this?

    7 36.84%
  • I like pork but not pork biproducts.

    1 5.26%
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Thread: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

  1. #71
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    This is the FBI flier that at one point was circulating around about who a terrorist is.

    Defenders of the U.S. Constitution are considered terrorists.


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  2. #72
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Terrorists are in the eye of the beholder, and to King George, the founding fathers were terrorists.
    Three problems with this:

    1) The word "terror" wasn't associated with such acts until the French brought about the "reign of terror" in 1793.

    2) Americans just cannot be terrorists, now or ever - especially if you believe the US posters on this forum.

    3) People fail to distinguish between what terrorism is actually about (and let's remember there is no international definition) - it certainly isn't defined by modern tactics and technology but by intent.

    I've said if before on other threads and will say it again here - repealing the Stamp Act was not done through guerilla action or shooting at British troops from behind trees: it was done by instilling fear for the lives of civiolians through violence and intimidation of civilians by an organised force. i.e. terrorists - except that the word didn't exist at that time.

  3. #73
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    This is the FBI flier that at one point was circulating around about who a terrorist is.

    Defenders of the U.S. Constitution are considered terrorists.


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    Did you read what I read?

    I read :

    "Defenders" of the U.S. Constitution(Super Patriots)

    You read :

    Defenders of the U.S. Constitution.

    Obviously we do not get the same thing from it. I think Ron Paul is a legitimate defender of the U.S. constitution. I think David Duke is a ****ing terrorist calling himself a "Defender" of the U.S. constitution.

    Not to nitpick but I think there is a clear difference between saying that somebody is a defender and saying "defender".
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #74
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Three problems with this:

    1) The word "terror" wasn't associated with such acts until the French brought about the "reign of terror" in 1793.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    2) Americans just cannot be terrorists, now or ever - especially if you believe the US posters on this forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    3) People fail to distinguish between what terrorism is actually about (and let's remember there is no international definition) - it certainly isn't defined by modern tactics and technology but by intent.
    That I can agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I've said if before on other threads and will say it again here - repealing the Stamp Act was not done through guerilla action or shooting at British troops from behind trees: it was done by instilling fear for the lives of civiolians through violence and intimidation of civilians by an organised force. i.e. terrorists - except that the word didn't exist at that time.
    Not true at all...

    "The American colonists won their first victory over Parliament when the Stamp Act was repealed in early 1766. The boycott of English goods proved to be the decisive factor, as there was no way for Grenville and his party to persuade the rest of Parliament to ignore the pain the American boycott was inflicting on English manufacturers. Still, the repeal came only after another round of long and contentious debates in which William Pitt delivered a historic speech in defense of the Americans: “They are subjects of this kingdom equally entitled with yourselves to all the natural rights of mankind and the peculiar privileges of Englishmen; equally bound by its laws, and equally participating in the constitution of this free country. The Americans are the sons, not the bastards of England.” Pitt proposed an immediate and total repeal of the Stamp Act and, with the help of two dramatic speeches by Edmund Burke, the repeal was passed on March 18th, 1766. The colonists had resisted against the British and Parliament flinched and, in so doing had, in George Washington’s view, averted disaster: “The Repeal of the Stamp Act, to whatsoever causes owing, ought much to be rejoiced at, for had the Parliament of Great Britain resolved upon enforcing it the consequences I conceive would have been more direful than is generally apprehended” (from a letter to Robert Cary dated July 21, 1766)." - repeal of stamp act

    Boycotts and debating in Parliament somehow instilled "fear" or "terror" in the population?


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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Listen to the way he brainwashes his students into not making any choices. He draws so many lines and then says they people who are against you don't see their own problem and you are right. The lecturer could take a lesson from your words actually.

    And of course when the government takes your rights people are going to cry "What would the founding fathers thing?!" and this mans lecture will be the only thing that guides their action. The course he took their mind on.
    How many times have you stood up in class and told the professor that the history book was wrong? Pipedreamers talk about objectivity in the classroom. Seems to me whoever believes this hasn't spent much time in the classroom.
    Last edited by American; 03-03-09 at 08:50 AM.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Terrorists aim to mainly achieve their ends by creating terror whether they are gov'ts, as they usually are, or other groups. I don't think this was the main tactic of the rebels but I'm not completely up on the ins and outs of the war.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #77
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    WWII is an entirely different context from the situation that our military is in now, and if you understand that war and the way that the term "terrorist" is used now, you will understand why that analogy is absolutely irrelevant. It is now that we are talking about anyway... if you were to bring up how the US terrorized and murdered Native Americans, it would be just as irrelevant as as the WWII analogy.
    Ok, so you say the US government doesn't target civilians, I say we have. You say prove it, I prove it; you say it's irrelevant. Nice. I'm gonna use this "logic" from now on.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  8. #78
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Terrorists aim to mainly achieve their ends by creating terror whether they are gov'ts, as they usually are, or other groups. I don't think this was the main tactic of the rebels but I'm not completely up on the ins and outs of the war.
    And we all know how similar dumping tea into the Boston harbor is to sending children with bombbelts to blow up innocent civilians.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Timothy McVeigh was absolutely a terrorist. He even had the MO of most every terrorist - depressed with no sex life.
    No sex!!!!???? Damn, I had better get out there and get some before I become a terrorist!!

  10. #80
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Did you read what I read?

    I read :

    "Defenders" of the U.S. Constitution(Super Patriots)

    You read :

    Defenders of the U.S. Constitution.
    I'm not trying to be difficult but what is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Obviously we do not get the same thing from it. I think Ron Paul is a legitimate defender of the U.S. constitution. I think David Duke is a ****ing terrorist calling himself a "Defender" of the U.S. constitution.
    Agreed David Duke is a **** bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Not to nitpick but I think there is a clear difference between saying that somebody is a defender and saying "defender".
    I'm just not sure what the difference is.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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