View Poll Results: Founding Fathers. Terrorists?

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  • Yes. Terrorists.

    4 21.05%
  • Nope. Heros.

    14 73.68%
  • The definition of terrorist must be too broad.

    3 15.79%
  • We must make more of certian elements considered terrorism.

    1 5.26%
  • We must fund more of classes like these.

    1 5.26%
  • Why are taxpayers funding this?

    7 36.84%
  • I like pork but not pork biproducts.

    1 5.26%
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Thread: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

  1. #61
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Terrorists are in the eye of the beholder, and to King George, the founding fathers were terrorists.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Terrorists are in the eye of the beholder, and to King George, the founding fathers were terrorists.
    To us King Geroge was a tyrannical monarch who used our land a disposal point of political undesirables.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Terrorists are in the eye of the beholder, and to King George, the founding fathers were terrorists.
    Wrong...

    "Whereas many of our subjects in divers parts of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, misled by dangerous and ill designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and supported them; after various disorderly acts committed in disturbance of the publick peace, to the obstruction of lawful commerce, and to the oppression of our loyal subjects carrying on the same; have at length proceeded to open and avowed rebellion, by arraying themselves in a hostile manner, to withstand the execution of the law, and traitorously preparing, ordering and levying war against us: And whereas, there is reason to apprehend that such rebellion hath been much promoted and encouraged by the traitorous correspondence, counsels and comfort of divers wicked and desperate persons within this Realm: To the end therefore, that none of our subjects may neglect or violate their duty through ignorance thereof, or through any doubt of the protection which the law will afford to their loyalty and zeal, we have thought fit, by and with the advice of our Privy Council, to issue our Royal Proclamation, hereby declaring, that not only all our Officers, civil and military, are obliged to exert their utmost endeavours to suppress such rebellion, and to bring the traitors to justice, but that all our subjects of this Realm, and the dominions thereunto belonging, are bound by law to be aiding and assisting in the suppression of such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all traitorous conspiracies and attempts against us, our crown and dignity; and we do accordingly strictly charge and command all our Officers, as well civil as military, and all others our obedient and loyal subjects, to use their utmost endeavours to withstand and suppress such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which they shall know to be against us, our crown and dignity; and for that purpose, that they transmit to one of our principal Secretaries of State, or other proper officer, due and full information of all persons who shall be found carrying on correspondence with, or in any manner or degree aiding or abetting the persons now in open arms and rebellion against our Government, within any of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, in order to bring to condign punishment the authors, perpetrators, and abetters of such traitorous designs.

    Given at our Court at St. Jamess the twenty-third day of August, one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five, in the fifteenth year of our reign.

    GOD save the KING.
    " - King George III August 23, 1775

    Lets look at the definition of terrorist...

    "Terrorist - a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities." - terrorist - definition of terrorist by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Does not quite fit the founding fathers in King Georges own words does it?


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  4. #64
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is a good point. I don't think the case can be made McVeigh is a terrorist because he blew up a building, but linking it to the purposeful use of terror does make a much better case for him having been a terrorist. I don't agree with Bodhisattva's definition of terrorism, because acting against the people and blowing things up...then damn our government is one of the biggest terrorist organizations in the world. I wouldn't necessarily say that is true, but we make a distinction between strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up a market and dropping bombs out of a plane and taking out a country. Though the end result is the same. I take more the Webster's definition of terrorism

    Terrorism, according to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary,[1] is the systematic use of terror, "violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands."

    Our military has, BTW, targeted civilians; just to be clear.

    What are you talking about? When did I say that governments bombing targets and people being killed is the same as suicide bombing, truck bombs and roadside bombs? Our government does not specifically target civilians, and whenever possible, strikes and missions are called off if a civilian element is detected.

    I would like you to provide evidence of the US Government specifically targeting civilians, since you just made that bold claim.

    AND, I have been saying essentially the same thing as Talloulou this entire time...
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    What are you talking about? When did I say that governments bombing targets and people being killed is the same as suicide bombing, truck bombs and roadside bombs? Our government does not specifically target civilians, and whenever possible, strikes and missions are called off if a civilian element is detected.

    I would like you to provide evidence of the US Government specifically targeting civilians, since you just made that bold claim.

    AND, I have been saying essentially the same thing as Talloulou this entire time...
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    What are you talking about? When did I say that governments bombing targets and people being killed is the same as suicide bombing, truck bombs and roadside bombs? Our government does not specifically target civilians, and whenever possible, strikes and missions are called off if a civilian element is detected.

    I would like you to provide evidence of the US Government specifically targeting civilians, since you just made that bold claim.

    AND, I have been saying essentially the same thing as Talloulou this entire time...
    The firebombing of Tokyo was specifically aimed at civilian casualties. In fact, they even had people work out the proper drop pattern in order to find the least amount of fuel for maximum amount of damage. The point was to demonstrate our might and make them hurt so much that they'd pull out of the war.
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Intention doesn't bring the innocent back.

    That is not the point, nor does it qualify who is, and who is not a terrorist.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The firebombing of Tokyo was specifically aimed at civilian casualties. In fact, they even had people work out the proper drop pattern in order to find the least amount of fuel for maximum amount of damage. The point was to demonstrate our might and make them hurt so much that they'd pull out of the war.

    WWII is an entirely different context from the situation that our military is in now, and if you understand that war and the way that the term "terrorist" is used now, you will understand why that analogy is absolutely irrelevant. It is now that we are talking about anyway... if you were to bring up how the US terrorized and murdered Native Americans, it would be just as irrelevant as as the WWII analogy.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Weren't the Founding Fathers much like the IRA?

    If you look carefully, you too could find similarities. Bombing cities, people and using violence to achieve their aims.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by George VI View Post
    Weren't the Founding Fathers much like the IRA?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by George VI View Post
    If you look carefully, you too could find similarities. Bombing cities, people and using violence to achieve their aims.
    The key to that statement is "look carefully." People can find unrelated similarities in many things. In fact this fuels much of the lunatic fringe in the common everyday conspiracy rantings we see so much of now days.

    By your broad definition almost any act of violence to achieve a goal is terrorism. We know in reality this is not the case.


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