View Poll Results: Founding Fathers. Terrorists?

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  • Yes. Terrorists.

    4 21.05%
  • Nope. Heros.

    14 73.68%
  • The definition of terrorist must be too broad.

    3 15.79%
  • We must make more of certian elements considered terrorism.

    1 5.26%
  • We must fund more of classes like these.

    1 5.26%
  • Why are taxpayers funding this?

    7 36.84%
  • I like pork but not pork biproducts.

    1 5.26%
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Thread: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

  1. #31
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Yes I am; why don't you explain to me what his purpose is.
    Sorry, I am not privy to his thoughts, I have no clue where the discussion began, nor where it led, and what the ultimate purpose was, if this is what you are asking for.

    You stated you had no idea of what he was trying to illustrate, and then basically reworded and put your own little slant on exactly what his purpose was for the segment of the discussion after the Founding fathers was brought up though. He is asking "is there not a difference between our contemporary views of terrorism and the actions of those in the past that are not considered terrorists.

    Too bad you could not have been in the classroom to contribute to the discussion. Perhaps the video might have a very different appearance if so.

  2. #32
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Founders were not terrorists, Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc were not terrorists.

    The current government would 100% classify the founding fathers as terrorists.
    You don't believe that they were terrorists but you think that the government today would?



    Timothy McVeigh was not a terrorist, he was out of his ever loving mind, but not a terrorist.
    McVeigh was NOT A terrorist, according to you?

    A government building is not a military target.
    The target also included a pre-school.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  3. #33
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Sorry, I am not privy to his thoughts, I have no clue where the discussion began, nor where it led, and what the ultimate purpose was, if this is what you are asking for.
    I see, so your comment to me had no point.


    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    You stated you had no idea of what he was trying to illustrate, and then basically reworded and put your own little slant on exactly what his purpose was for the segment of the discussion after the Founding fathers was brought up though.
    You would be wrong; I called him a moron based on his false premise about the founders being terrorists and am clueless of what the purpose of making such a specious argument could have been.

    Is that more clear for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    He is asking "is there not a difference between our contemporary views of terrorism and the actions of those in the past that are not considered terrorists.
    That's funny because in the beginning of your post you said: "Sorry, I am not privy to his thoughts, I have no clue where the discussion began, nor where it led, and what the ultimate purpose was..."

    Were you lying? Is there a point here?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Too bad you could not have been in the classroom to contribute to the discussion. Perhaps the video might have a very different appearance if so.
    I don't see why it would have mattered if I were there or not; do you have a point?

  4. #34
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You don't believe that they were terrorists but you think that the government today would?





    McVeigh was NOT A terrorist, according to you?

    A government building is not a military target.
    The target also included a pre-school.
    I would think the only way to blow up a building and have the slightest chance of being a terrorist would be if you evacuated the whole building 100% (good luck) and decreed that your intentions is not of that of any fear mongering. But stopping a channel. Good luck keeping no one in harms way though.

    And you'd still be a terrorist.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    I would think the only way to blow up a building and have the slightest chance of "NOT" being a terrorist would be if you evacuated the whole building 100% (good luck) and decreed that your intentions is not of that of any fear mongering. But stopping a channel. Good luck keeping no one in harms way though.

    And you'd still be a terrorist.
    Did you forget the "NOT" that I inserted above?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Did you forget the "NOT" that I inserted above?
    I was just going out on a limb and chasing a thought.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    You don't believe that they were terrorists but you think that the government today would?
    Exactly. The government wants to expand the definition of terrorism and use it in its normal enforcement routine. It's a way to encourage fear in the populace of some form of attack and removes some resistance they would normally have when increasing their size and power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    McVeigh was NOT A terrorist, according to you?

    A government building is not a military target.
    The target also included a pre-school.
    No, he was not a terrorist. First off, he was an individual and wasn't part of a larger organization. It's hard for a lone sheep to be a terrorist because of what a terrorist organization must do in order to be heard by some government. Second, he was not looking to inspire fear; in fact it was the exact opposite. He wanted to inspire further action against the government. Terrorist terrorize, that's why they are named that way. Terror is a big tool, the defining tool, they use to accomplish their goals. McVeigh's goals were not to inspire terror. He thought that the government was acting improperly for too long and needed to be disposed of. He didn't care about inspiring terror in the government to yield to his demands since the goal was the overthrow of the government. Nor did he want to terrorize the People into giving into demands because he wanted to jump start a revolution. He wanted people to join the cause, not fear it. He blew up a government building in his war against the government. All government buildings are legitimate targets when the goal is revolution. The government put the day-care in there, not him. The government should understand that their buildings can be considered legitimate targets, and they are. If you wish to revolt against the government, you may take down their buildings...or take them over; but you'll need a larger force for that.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Exactly. The government wants to expand the definition of terrorism and use it in its normal enforcement routine. It's a way to encourage fear in the populace of some form of attack and removes some resistance they would normally have when increasing their size and power.



    No, he was not a terrorist. First off, he was an individual and wasn't part of a larger organization. It's hard for a lone sheep to be a terrorist because of what a terrorist organization must do in order to be heard by some government. Second, he was not looking to inspire fear; in fact it was the exact opposite. He wanted to inspire further action against the government. Terrorist terrorize, that's why they are named that way. Terror is a big tool, the defining tool, they use to accomplish their goals. McVeigh's goals were not to inspire terror. He thought that the government was acting improperly for too long and needed to be disposed of. He didn't care about inspiring terror in the government to yield to his demands since the goal was the overthrow of the government. Nor did he want to terrorize the People into giving into demands because he wanted to jump start a revolution. He wanted people to join the cause, not fear it. He blew up a government building in his war against the government. All government buildings are legitimate targets when the goal is revolution. The government put the day-care in there, not him. The government should understand that their buildings can be considered legitimate targets, and they are. If you wish to revolt against the government, you may take down their buildings...or take them over; but you'll need a larger force for that.
    So you are saying he was not a terrorist. He was a man that declared war on the Federal Government with no army to join?
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  9. #39
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So you are saying he was not a terrorist. He was a man that declared war on the Federal Government with no army to join?
    Pretty much. He was a nut job for sure; but not a terrorist. Blowing up buildings doesn't in and of itself define terrorism.
    Last edited by Ikari; 03-02-09 at 04:15 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  10. #40
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post



    I don't see why it would have mattered if I were there or not; do you have a point?
    yes and I made it in my original post to you. You stated did know what he was trying to illustrate, you summed up the subtopic of the discussion we saw quite nicely after you stated you did not know what he was illustrating.

    You did not miss a beat towards the DIRECTION the discussion went, and were able to understand the points being made in the segment we saw very well. If you were in the discussion to make your counterpoint it would have led the OPEN class discussion in a new direction, and would have been a useful contribution. You were right on theme.

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