View Poll Results: Founding Fathers. Terrorists?

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  • Yes. Terrorists.

    4 21.05%
  • Nope. Heros.

    14 73.68%
  • The definition of terrorist must be too broad.

    3 15.79%
  • We must make more of certian elements considered terrorism.

    1 5.26%
  • We must fund more of classes like these.

    1 5.26%
  • Why are taxpayers funding this?

    7 36.84%
  • I like pork but not pork biproducts.

    1 5.26%
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Thread: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

  1. #101
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Dictionaries aren't politically sophisticated. Terrorism is just about the tactics of terror. No doubt a lot of dictionaries neglect to mention that the vast majority of this, including the terror from which the name comes from, the Great Terror, are done by gov'ts.
    The problem is the term "terrorist" automatically makes the person evil or the enemy by most most modern standards.

    By making the definition to broad you are adding in people who do not deserve the moniker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The problem is the term "terrorist" automatically makes the person evil or the enemy by most most modern standards.

    By making the definition to broad you are adding in people who do not deserve the moniker.
    C'mon, use common sense...

    I terrorized my brother while we grew up and nobody here would label me as a terrorist.
    We are talking about a specific group of people that use TERROR as a WEAPON.
    Also, it is used SPECIFICALLY as a weapon to try and KILL or TERRORIZE CIVILIANS.

    Like the CAPS?
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    there were no hijackers...

  3. #103
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am not in college, and have not been for a very long time so I have no access.
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This does not change the fact they were not terrorists. By the definition they are not and were not.
    The problem with modern definitions is that there isn't an agreed one yet - but we recognise modern acts of terror when we see them.

    You are welcome to discuss the facts that prove they weren't - or the definition of intention of terrorism as a method to provoke fear or terror instead. It's always a highly charged thing to say some of the founding fathers were terrorists (remembering the word hadn't been coined yet) especially to Americans - which is why I made my sarcastic first post on this thread that you picked up.

    And I'll remember not to use caps in my posts for Bhodi's fragile sake..

  4. #104
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The problem is the term "terrorist" automatically makes the person evil or the enemy by most most modern standards.

    By making the definition to broad you are adding in people who do not deserve the moniker.
    Like the Jacobins and Stalins? These people have always been known as terrorists but now there seems to an unfortunate, and no doubt ideological, attempt to apply it only to small, non-state groups mostly Muslims.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #105
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    The problem with modern definitions is that there isn't an agreed one yet - but we recognise modern acts of terror when we see them.
    We do recognize past acts of terrorism as well.

    My only disagreement is I feel it is being applied to broadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    You are welcome to discuss the facts that prove they weren't - or the definition of intention of terrorism as a method to provoke fear or terror instead. It's always a highly charged thing to say some of the founding fathers were terrorists (remembering the word hadn't been coined yet) especially to Americans - which is why I made my sarcastic first post on this thread that you picked up.
    I don't disagree some off them were. Some of the folks serving the king at the time were doing much the same. So in this case they were fighting fire with fire.

    My problem is that people are trying to apply it to all the founding fathers and that is ridicules to say the least. I can't see Benjamin Franklin or John Adams running around instilling fear in anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #106
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Like the Jacobins and Stalins? These people have always been known as terrorists but now there seems to an unfortunate, and no doubt ideological, attempt to apply it only to small, non-state groups mostly Muslims.
    The Jacobin Club was indeed a terrorist organization. Stalin was a ruthless dictator, but I do not consider him a terrorist. In fact I can think of no time in school (middle or college) he was called such?

    As for applying it to only Muslims, that is silly. Some Muslims are indeed terrorists, some are not.

    I do agree to many people are trying to disparage Muslims as terrorists. People trying to portray the founders as a whole as terrorists are just as misguided.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #107
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    -- I don't disagree some off them were. Some of the folks serving the king at the time were doing much the same --
    There we can agree. And as Wessexman also pointed out - governments and or their conduits can also be responsible for acts of terror.

  8. #108
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    Re: Founding Fathers of America. Terrorists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The Jacobin Club was indeed a terrorist organization. Stalin was a ruthless dictator, but I do not consider him a terrorist. In fact I can think of no time in school (middle or college) he was called such?
    Ever heard of his Great Terror? The Jacobins were not terrorists as some small. non-state group. They were terrorists as members of gov't.


    I do agree to many people are trying to disparage Muslims as terrorists. People trying to portray the founders as a whole as terrorists are just as misguided.
    Yes I realise that but I object to this strange new definition of terrorism which seems leave out most of them and apply it only to small, non-state groups. It seems ideological to me.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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