View Poll Results: how are family values today compared to yesterday?

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  • values are higher than before

    2 7.41%
  • values are the same

    9 33.33%
  • values are lower than before

    16 59.26%
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Thread: Family Values

  1. #41
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Doesn't matter why. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. Doesn't matter if it's because someone needed to "grow up". What matters is people getting out of relationships that do not work for them, that are detrimental to all involved - most especially the children. The why is really irrelevant, IMO.
    I disagree entirely. Talk to folks on their second marriages. Most of them realize why the first one didn't work out. They also realize what parts they played in it not working out. Often the same issues arose in their second marriage but instead of quitting they worked on their issues so as to not go through a divorce again. Most couples are not divorcing because one of the parents is a hardened drug user, an alcoholic, or an abuser. Most are ending over stupid immature b.s. that eventually is revisited in marriage number 2 but it's dealt with more maturely the second time around.

    If daddy is beating mommy then yes it's best for the kids that mom pack up and leave. But if mommy and daddy are just ill equipped at dealing with stressful times, immature, or overly selfish the kids are better off when the family stays intact vs. bringing step parents in to work on the same dang issues.

  2. #42
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    Re: Family Values

    “You mean people actually leaving bad relationships instead of…” – rivrrat

    No.

    I “mean” exactly what I stated originally which are those things that support the nuclear family (dad, mom and kids) as the most fundamental unit of our culture.

    Anything that weakens that is harmful.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  3. #43
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    Re: Family Values

    family values are hard to quantify.

    you can measure things like the divorce rate, but without also understanding what caused people to stay in marriages previously and what is causing them to leave them now, such information is meaningless.

    divorce rates might be going up because more marriages are broken, or because more people are leaving broken marriages. how does one quantify which matters more?

    this is without even trying to define family values, and we all know that there are some strong differences in opinion here.

  4. #44
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by FallingPianos View Post
    family values are hard to quantify.

    you can measure things like the divorce rate, but without also understanding what caused people to stay in marriages previously and what is causing them to leave them now, such information is meaningless.

    divorce rates might be going up because more marriages are broken, or because more people are leaving broken marriages. how does one quantify which matters more?

    this is without even trying to define family values, and we all know that there are some strong differences in opinion here.
    Well what we do know without a doubt is that children in two parent homes do better in school and tend to be provided for properly whereas kids in single family homes are far more likely to live in poverty, perform poorly in school, and the boys are more likely to spend some time in jail. A child is less safe in a home with no father. No matter how women want to spin that, no matter how much they think "dads" are expendable, the statistics show that if we value children we need the dads to stick around. Thus keeping mom and dad intact is a big part of family values.

  5. #45
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    You'll have to explain how conservatives are responsible for domestic enslavement, not ending the cold war, and segregation. Hell, liberals are the reason there is a "Parental Adivsory" sticker on CDs. It was Tipper Gores PMCA that started all that garbage, and there were hearings about music by the democratic lead Congress over the issue in the 80s.
    He also refuses to acknowledge that it was democrats who kept fighting so hard to keep segregation legal. But whatever...facts don't make for very good hysterical rants.

  6. #46
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well what we do know without a doubt is that children in two parent homes do better in school and tend to be provided for properly whereas kids in single family homes are far more likely to live in poverty, perform poorly in school, and the boys are more likely to spend some time in jail. A child is less safe in a home with no father. No matter how women want to spin that, no matter how much they think "dads" are expendable, the statistics show that if we value children we need the dads to stick around. Thus keeping mom and dad intact is a big part of family values.
    I don't disagree with the statistics, but I think there are more ways that they can be interpreted.

    if your comparing children born out of wedlock to children born and raised with both parents, yes they are more likely to be poor and suffer other negative consequences. but if the dad isn't there, theres probably a reason and forcing him into the picture (aside from child support payments) wont necessarily make things better. this is one of the reasons I believe birth control is so vital.

    if you are comparing children who's parents are together with children whos parents are divorced, you are also correct that the kids of divorced parents are also more likely to suffer negative consequences. but those could be caused by the circumstances that led to the divorce, rather than the divorce itself.

    the more valuable comparison, would be comparing children in broken homes of parents who stay together, with children from homes where the parents divorced. the problem is that there would be so many variables to control for that it would be impossible to do such a study without a huge sample size.

    obviously, it would be best if all children were born to parents who love and respect each other, and it would be best if parents never encountered circumstances where they felt like a divorce was necessary. But this never has, and never will be the reality of the situation, and forcing people to stay together will never fix it.

  7. #47
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    He also refuses to acknowledge that it was democrats who kept fighting so hard to keep segregation legal. But whatever...facts don't make for very good hysterical rants.
    I don't think he was talking about Democrats or Republicans but the notion of who is seeking to continue the status quo(usually conservatives) and who seeks to change things(usually liberals).
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #48
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    Re: Family Values

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I disagree entirely. Talk to folks on their second marriages. Most of them realize why the first one didn't work out. They also realize what parts they played in it not working out. Often the same issues arose in their second marriage but instead of quitting they worked on their issues so as to not go through a divorce again. Most couples are not divorcing because one of the parents is a hardened drug user, an alcoholic, or an abuser. Most are ending over stupid immature b.s. that eventually is revisited in marriage number 2 but it's dealt with more maturely the second time around.
    The people changed, as people do. They grow, they evolve, they learn. THAT is why second marriages generally work out better. I agree. However, that doesn't negate the fact that if a relationship is bad, is toxic, the people in it should get out of it. Some people just do not need to be together. Doesn't matter if it's because one of them still had some growing up to do. Doesn't matter if it's because they were selfish. (who isn't?) What matter is: Is the relationship working, or not? Are the people in the family happy, or not? If not, then either fix it, or GTFO.

    If daddy is beating mommy then yes it's best for the kids that mom pack up and leave. But if mommy and daddy are just ill equipped at dealing with stressful times, immature, or overly selfish the kids are better off when the family stays intact vs. bringing step parents in to work on the same dang issues.
    I disagree. No kid is better off with parents who hate each other or parents who are chronically unhappy with each other, themselves, or the living situation. NO CHILD should be forced to live in a such a situation just because some self-righteous assholes think it's "better for the children" to live with both of their parents together. It is not always better for the children. If mommy and daddy are ill equipped or too immature to deal with one another, then mommy and daddy need to get the **** out of the relationship and not force their kids to suffer their poison. If they can't even deal with each other, the last thing they should be doing is trying to raise a kid together.

    If getting divorced expedites the process of them "growing up", and they subsequently find another, healthier relationship... then fantastic!


    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    “You mean people actually leaving bad relationships instead of…” – rivrrat

    No.

    I “mean” exactly what I stated originally which are those things that support the nuclear family (dad, mom and kids) as the most fundamental unit of our culture.

    Anything that weakens that is harmful.
    Nothing can "weaken" a family other than the family itself.

  9. #49
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    Re: Family Values

    “you can measure things like the divorce rate, but without also understanding what caused people to stay in marriages previously and what is causing them to leave them now, such information is meaningless.” – FallingPianos

    No fault divorce was first introduced to this country in 1970. Divorce rates have been going up since then until today when most marriages end in divorce.

    Make divorce easy and commitment becomes a thing of the past.

    There’s no mystery here.


    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  10. #50
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    Re: Family Values

    "Nothing can "weaken" a family other than the family itself." - rivrrat

    See above.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

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