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Racist or not Racist.

Which of these pictures are Racist?

  • Total voters
    49
Cardinal said:
And consistently in a derogatory way, of course, that casts a negative light on their intelligence or job performance. However, throughout much of our history a black person didn't have to have sub par intelligence in order to earn the monkey reference. All they had to do was be black. That's why the first set of pictures is racist. And it's not just in the past, as the monkey/Barak or Michelle comparison is used to this day (and in this thread).
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I don't know about that. I called Bush a chimp because he actually looked like one. Those pics speak for themselves. Dude looks like a chimp.

I find it interesting that some of the people (I'm not referring to you, Tucker) who've made the most racial epithets in the past year or so have the most trouble understanding this.
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I say cracker and honky a lot because I think it's funny.

And I understand why people think it's racist, but I think that the themselves are ignoring the fact that intent is of primacy in racism.

If I call Patrick Ewing a gorilla lookin' dude, it's not because he's black, it's because he actually does look kind of like a gorilla. If I say Bush looks like a chimp, it's because the dude looks like a chimp.

Not being racist, I make these observations independent of race.

The fact that other people do something for nefarious reasons doesn't change the reasons why I do something.

If we stop doing things to Obama that we might do to Bush, simply because Obama is black, then we are actually engaging in racism AGAINST blacks.

If I choose to change my behavior because of the person's race, then I'm arbitrarily denying them something I would give a white person.

This is just as true with negative things as it is of positive things.

Applying racism in this context presumes the motivations for the chimp comparisons are different for the black president than they were for the white president, which may or may not be true.

Simply labelling it as racism BEFORE one understands the motivations, is in fact racist because it is denying the black man something based on race and race alone. Even if the thing being denied is in fact a negative thing, the motivations behind the denial of this thing being the arbitrary racial characteristics means that it is still racist.
 
talloulou said:
Nope. Michelle and Obama are not victims. You can't make them be victims. You can't put them in the role of a victim. They are now the MOST POWERFUL couple in the world.

So either it's offensive to call ANY politician a monkey or it's no big deal to call any of them monkeys. Take you pick. Obama has proven that racism isn't a issue that can really touch him. It certainly wasn't powerful enough in this country to keep him from getting elected. He is powerful, the exact opposite of weak. Don't put your feelings of racism on him or his wife. Don't whine for them. I don't think they'd want you to.
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Re-read my post with the assumption that I'm not being emotional in any way, and without the idea that I believe that the Obamas "need my help."
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Oh the poor white people, they can't compare black people to monkey's even though racism and all of its legacy is obviously over since we have a black president. Oh the poor, persecuted white people... :roll:

What is it with everyone's need anymore to feel as though they are being discriminated against and persecuted.

I'm Catholic and we were discriminated against in the south.

I'm Irish and we were discriminated against.

I'm an evangelical and we are persecuted.

I am a conservative and I am being persecuted on campus because others choose not to listen to me.

I am a liberal and I am being discriminated against on talk radio because they don't give me equal time.

I am white and I am being discriminated against because I get called out for using an old racist comparison in a political cartoon, plus they give all the good jobs to blacks now.

I am black and I am being discriminated against because no one wants to go to my failing and crime ridden school.

I am Mexican and I am being discriminated against because people actually want me to follow the law when trying to come to America.

Blah, blah, blah....

Comparing a black man to a monkey is racist. Its racist because for 200 years that has been a racist comparison. Just because someone did so and were called out about it does not constitute some muzzling of white people, and thus persecution of whites. So quit whining.
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Except that it's time to just "let it go". When I am in a crowd and someone starts talking about flaming florist chorus line homos, I don't get the slightest bit offended because, though I am gay, none of those descriptions fit me.

If Obama is being compared to a monkey, why is the knee jerk reaction to say "that's racist against blacks". No it's not retards, it's assholish against Obama.

Unless you really do think all blacks are comparable to monkeys or something.
 
jallman said:
Except that it's time to just "let it go". When I am in a crowd and someone starts talking about flaming florist chorus line homos, I don't get the slightest bit offended because, though I am gay, none of those descriptions fit me.

If Obama is being compared to a monkey, why is the knee jerk reaction to say "that's racist against blacks". No it's not retards, it's assholish against Obama.

Unless you really do think all blacks are comparable to monkeys or something.
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So by that argument, the following statement is not racist:

"Black people are all lazy!"

Because by your reasoning, if you are black yet not lazy, the statement cannot be racist because it doesn't apply to you.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Comparing a black man to a monkey is racist. Its racist because for 200 years that has been a racist comparison. Just because someone did so and were called out about it does not constitute some muzzling of white people, and thus persecution of whites. So quit whining.
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If it's ok to portray white politicians as monkeys then it's ok to portray black politicians the very same way.

YOU KNOW WHAT? They can freaking handle it. Give 'em some credit. If someone calls Bush a monkey and then someone else calls Obama a monkey and Obama's feelings somehow get more hurt than Bush's did that's on Obama. The fact of the matter is it is tasteless to call anyone a monkey. But it isn't worse to do it to Obama. He's not a special sensitive person who needs to fear whitey. Obama owns this country for Christ's sake. You think he gives a crap about a monkey picture?

I went to some class on racism as part of training for a volunteer shelter job. Anywayz one of the things they pushed was that there is no such thing as reverse racism. I thought that was a load of CRAP. But they'd accept no disagreement. They INSISTED racism can only exist when someone of power devalues someone weaker.

OBAMA IS THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD.

According to all the sensitive let me teach you about racism whackos it is now IMPOSSIBLE for anything anyone does to Obama to be considered racist because Obama is the man with the power.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
So by that argument, the following statement is not racist:

"Black people are all lazy!"

Because by your reasoning, if you are black yet not lazy, the statement cannot be racist because it doesn't apply to you.
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False analogy. If you go screaming "black people (or chinese people, or mexican people) are ___________" you are directing that at the whole race.

Comparing a lone man, in this case Obama, to something is not attacking the whole race.
 
It depends on the context. In the right context comparing Obama to a monkey can definitely be construed as racist. I don't know why some people think that because we have a black President that somehow racism doesn't exist anymore.

That being said, I fail to understand (just as I did in Rev's other thread) how a comparison that could be racist in the proper context is comparable to the Bush=chimp thing. I can't imagine any context in which that could be construed as racist because I've honestly never heard someone try to use chimps as a racist tool against white people. I have heard people use them as a racist tool against black people. So my question is this: what does one have to do with the other aside from the fact that chimps are involved?
 
Has blacks really been referred to as monkeys?? Throughout the last 200 years in the US?

To tell the truth, I never really heard of that, in my lifetime or in history.

Blacks have been called many things that degrade them. Such as "boy", emasculate and condescending. But I've never really heard of them referred to as monkeys or gorillas :confused:
 
dclxvinoise said:
It depends on the context. In the right context comparing Obama to a monkey can definitely be construed as racist. I don't know why some people think that because we have a black President that somehow racism doesn't exist anymore.

That being said, I fail to understand (just as I did in Rev's other thread) how a comparison that could be racist in the proper context is comparable to the Bush=chimp thing. I can't imagine any context in which that could be construed as racist because I've honestly never heard someone try to use chimps as a racist tool against white people. I have heard people use them as a racist tool against black people. So my question is this: what does one have to do with the other aside from the fact that chimps are involved?
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I don't think it really has to do with much of anything except the fact that society is getting fed up with being told that certain things are "off limits" because of a 200 year old grudge that no person alive today had anything to do with as an aggressor or a victim.
 
Tucker Case said:
I don't know about that. I called Bush a chimp because he actually looked like one. Those pics speak for themselves. Dude looks like a chimp.
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Agreed, but there is a difference between assigning a comparison that is situational and one that is uniformly assigned to an entire group based on their race. In one case, a person must actually do something to attain comparison of a monkey or really, really look like one. In the the other case, all a person has to do is belong to a genetic group and bam! The monkey comparison is used. Why else would the monkey picture even be used in proximity to the picture of Obama? It's not like he looks or acts like one. I mean, if you're going to start using a picture of an animal, why not a lemur, or a koala bear, or a giraffe? They make about as much sense. But no, it's always...the monkey.

Tucker Case said:
I say cracker and honky a lot because I think it's funny.

And I understand why people think it's racist, but I think that the themselves are ignoring the fact that intent is of primacy in racism.

If I call Patrick Ewing a gorilla lookin' dude, it's not because he's black, it's because he actually does look kind of like a gorilla. If I say Bush looks like a chimp, it's because the dude looks like a chimp.

Not being racist, I make these observations independent of race.

The fact that other people do something for nefarious reasons doesn't change the reasons why I do something.

If we stop doing things to Obama that we might do to Bush, simply because Obama is black, then we are actually engaging in racism AGAINST blacks.

If I choose to change my behavior because of the person's race, then I'm arbitrarily denying them something I would give a white person.

This is just as true with negative things as it is of positive things.

Applying racism in this context presumes the motivations for the chimp comparisons are different for the black president than they were for the white president, which may or may not be true.

Simply labelling it as racism BEFORE one understands the motivations, is in fact racist because it is denying the black man something based on race and race alone. Even if the thing being denied is in fact a negative thing, the motivations behind the denial of this thing being the arbitrary racial characteristics means that it is still racist.
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I agree with everything you say here. Your comments and jokes are technically racist, but there's no bite to them. I'm not getting a vibe of meanness or ill will toward the race in question. Others here? Well, I dunno, I'm getting something else from them. But believe it or not, despite the position I've taken in this thread, I don't actually spend my days being freaked out at the merest glimpse of racism.
 
Lightdemon said:
Has blacks really been referred to as monkeys?? Throughout the last 200 years in the US?

To tell the truth, I never really heard of that, in my lifetime or in history.

Blacks have been called many things that degrade them. Such as "boy", emasculate and condescending. But I've never really heard of them referred to as monkeys or gorillas :confused:
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Porch monkeys and yard apes.

But I have also heard children in general referred to in that way all my life. So again it comes back to hypersensitive PC goons running amok.

When my grandmother and mother called us yard apes and porch monkeys, never in my life did I think she was being racist. Neither did any of my black friends.

Agist maybe, but never racist.
 
jallman said:
I don't think it really has to do with much of anything except the fact that society is getting fed up with being told that certain things are "off limits" because of a 200 year old grudge that no person alive today had anything to do with as an aggressor or a victim.
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Well, I honestly don't think racism should be off limits. It is protected within the rights of free speech. However, it is still open to criticism like everything else is. Unfortunately a lot of agenda-driven activist groups forget the importance of free speech and feel that their group should be the exception. Obviously that's a load of crap. If you want to be treated as equals you will be treated as equals both in good ways and in bad ways.
 
dclxvinoise said:
It depends on the context. In the right context comparing Obama to a monkey can definitely be construed as racist. I don't know why some people think that because we have a black President that somehow racism doesn't exist anymore.
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I will accept claims of blatant racism. Cases where racism is OBVIOUS. But anything that is even remotely close to stretching in order to get an extra mile out of the race card is OVER as far as I'm concerned.

My reasoning is that I always felt like perhaps I really don't know how bad African Americans are treated by white people. Perhaps there are huge masses of our population that are still today horribly racist. Maybe I don't run with these groups but they exist in large enough portions to keep African Americans down in a way that I don't see.

Then Obama got elected. If we were a horribly racist country it couldn't have happened. So what did I learn? Despite everything all the race card players have forever been trying to tell me America is not all that racist anymore. We're just not. I, for one, think it's fantastic.

Are there racists left? Sure. Do they matter? Nope. They're entirely irrelevant and antiquated. Destined to be regulated to the history books.

An African American might experience racism. Might meet a racist. But if the African American lets that touch them too deeply that's on them because the US has shown that large masses of us harbor no racist feelings. So much so that Obama got elected.

That's why it's over. It's done. A black man can say to me, "You know I was at the store and this cashier said blah blah blah," and if it was obviously and clearly racist I'll agree with the guy that he ran into a racist mofo.

But Black people can no longer sit around bitching in general. Whining about stuff that didn't even personally affect them. Complaining about how racist America is in a general way. I will NEVER take any of that seriously ever again.
 
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talloulou said:
If it's ok to portray white politicians as monkeys then it's ok to portray black politicians the very same way.

YOU KNOW WHAT? They can freaking handle it. Give 'em some credit. If someone calls Bush a monkey and then someone else calls Obama a monkey and Obama's feelings somehow get more hurt than Bush's did that's on Obama. The fact of the matter is it is tasteless to call anyone a monkey. But it isn't worse to do it to Obama. He's not a special sensitive person who needs to fear whitey. Obama owns this country for Christ's sake. You think he gives a crap about a monkey picture?

I went to some class on racism as part of training for a volunteer shelter job. Anywayz one of the things they pushed was that there is no such thing as reverse racism. I thought that was a load of CRAP. But they'd accept no disagreement. They INSISTED racism can only exist when someone of power devalues someone weaker.

OBAMA IS THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD.

According to all the sensitive let me teach you about racism whackos it is now IMPOSSIBLE for anything anyone does to Obama to be considered racist because Obama is the man with the power.
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Throwing ideas of whether somebody's feelings is being hurt, who's at the top of the power structure and whether they can "take it" is hopelessly muddying the topic of whether something is racist or not.
 
This has got to be one of the dumbest arguments ever on this forum.

It offends African Americans for a black person to be compared to a monkey. Based on 200 plus years of history, African Americans see comparing a black person to a monkey as racist.

Therefore, if someone does not want to offend African Americans, then they should not draw and publish a cartoon where someone thats black is compared to a monkey. It's that simple. Its not a limitation on the press or speech, anyone is free to publish anything they want, its just that when you offend an entire race by making a comparison in a cartoon that for over 200 years has been racist comparison, then don't be surprised when a majority of Americans consider it racist.
 
Cardinal said:
Agreed, but there is a difference between assigning a comparison that is situational and one that is uniformly assigned to an entire group based on their race. In one case, a person must actually do something to attain comparison of a monkey or really, really look like one. In the the other case, all a person has to do is belong to a genetic group and bam! The monkey comparison is used. Why else would the monkey picture even be used in proximity to the picture of Obama? It's not like he looks or acts like one. I mean, if you're going to start using a picture of an animal, why not a lemur, or a koala bear, or a giraffe? They make about as much sense. But no, it's always...the monkey.
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Or...now stay with me here because this might be a little complicated after everyone being lobotomized with the racist chant again...it could be that a monkey is a caricature of an unevolved man and the comparison to a monkey comes when we think someone is stupid or less than adept at all the things a human should be.

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with it being a convenient and highly appropriate comparison.
 
talloulou said:
Then Obama got elected. If we were a horribly racist country it couldn't have happened. So what did I learn? Despite everything all the race card players have forever been trying to tell me America is not all that racist anymore. We're just not. I, for one, think it's fantastic.
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I agree. Obama becoming President was a huge step in the right direction for race relations. It's obvious that now people who are racist against black people are in the minority otherwise he wouldn't have been elected. And unfortunately this won't stop activist groups from getting up in arms over the most trivial bull**** even if it's clear that there is no racism going on. It also doesn't stop the minority of racist people in this country from continuing to be racist as hell.
 
jallman said:
Or...now stay with me here
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No, I won't. I entered this thread in good faith and you started acting like a prick towards me. Play with someone else.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
This has got to be one of the dumbest arguments ever on this forum.

It offends African Americans for a black person to be compared to a monkey. Based on 200 plus years of history, African Americans see comparing a black person to a monkey as racist.

Therefore, if someone does not want to offend African Americans, then they should not draw and publish a cartoon where someone thats black is compared to a monkey. It's that simple. Its not a limitation on the press or speech, anyone is free to publish anything they want, its just that when you offend an entire race by making a comparison in a cartoon that for over 200 years has been racist comparison, then don't be surprised when a majority of Americans consider it racist.
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Except that the cartoon wasn't aimed at Obama as he didn't write the Stimulus package. A lot of people completely misunderstood that.
 
dclxvinoise said:
Except that the cartoon wasn't aimed at Obama as he didn't write the Stimulus package. A lot of people completely misunderstood that.
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Everyone in America rightly or wrongly associates the stimulus package with Obama. Its obvious that the reference was to the individual that everyone associates the package with.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
This has got to be one of the dumbest arguments ever on this forum.

It offends African Americans for a black person to be compared to a monkey. Based on 200 plus years of history, African Americans see comparing a black person to a monkey as racist.

Therefore, if someone does not want to offend African Americans, then they should not draw and publish a cartoon where someone thats black is compared to a monkey. It's that simple. Its not a limitation on the press or speech, anyone is free to publish anything they want, its just that when you offend an entire race by making a comparison in a cartoon that for over 200 years has been racist comparison, then don't be surprised when a majority of Americans consider it racist.
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Agreed. In order for it to be different, you'd have to "reboot" American history and culture. While that's certainly not a bad idea on many levels, it's a tad unrealistic.
 
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