View Poll Results: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

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  • Yes, they are just stereotypical liberals.

    2 10.00%
  • Yes they are stereotypical liberals and they are douche bags.

    3 15.00%
  • No,they are just douche bags.

    15 75.00%
  • No, there is nothing wrong with them.

    0 0%
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Thread: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

  1. #51
    Sage
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Do you think anyone in the US would tolerate even 5 nuclear missiles going off inside the US?
    No. Four is where I draw the line.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  2. #52
    Upper West Side Jacobin
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    so I'd say that after four plus whatever amount the US could reasonably be counted on to shoot down/intercept was a waste of money on the Soviet's part.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  3. #53
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Do you think anyone in the US would tolerate even 5 nuclear missiles going off inside the US?
    Do you think anyone in the US would tolerate a SWAT team shooting even one tear gas canister into their home?

    Yet we all accept that SWAT teams and tear gas have a place in keeping the peace.

  4. #54
    Upper West Side Jacobin
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    SWAT teams are not analogous to the nuclear balance in the Cold War.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  5. #55
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    SWAT teams are not analogous to the nuclear balance in the Cold War.
    Okay... I'll make it easier for you.

    Using your own analogy and 'military weaponry.'

    Do you think the American people would tolerate even one foreign cruise missile fired into the heartland of the United States? Or would they tolerate even one foreign tank roaming through St Louis or Milwaukee shooting up homes?


  6. #56
    Upper West Side Jacobin
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    No, of course not, but only having one American tank isn't sufficient to curb that threat.

    Whereas having a fairly small nuclear arsenal, particularly the first-strike invincibility of missile subs, does effectively create "MAD" in the Soviet-US instance.

    No Soviet leader would tolerate 5 Russian cities being obliterated, just as no American leader would tolerate 5 American cities being obliterated.

    So all either side really needs is 5 missiles to create MAD and therefore a balance which will assure no missiles ever being used by either side.

    And, if something goes horribly wrong, only 10 cities will be obliterated.

    Whereas if the balance is between 10,000 missiles on each side, despite possessing the same ability to create mutually assured destruction and a balance of power, should something go wrong the results are vastly more disastrous.

    Neither the US nor the Soviets benefitted at all from our vast missile stores, which is exactly why both parties moved to regulate and reduce the stockpiles together.

    The SALT treaties show the necessity of regulation and the danger of uninhibited competition.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  7. #57
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Whereas having a fairly small nuclear arsenal, particularly the first-strike invincibility of missile subs, does effectively create "MAD" in the Soviet-US instance.
    In post #41, you argued that 100 nuclear missiles would be enough to effectively maintain "the balance of power."

    In post #49, I asked you the following...

    How about if each side had 50 missiles? Or only 10? Also an effective deterrence? And how would those 100 or 50 or 10 nuclear warheads be distributed? Would they all be land-based in silos? Or carried by bombers? Or submarines?
    In your last post, you suggest again that a 'fairly small' nuclear arsenal would be sufficient to create "MAD." So I'll ask again. Would 50 be sufficient? How about 10? How about 2?

    What is the minimum number of nuclear warheads required to maintain MAD?


  8. #58
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    I don't know the exact number of missiles you'd need, that'd be a calculation that would be created by each country based upon their values.

    I suspect the Soviets would be value their people less, but still I'd doubt they'd be willing to allow even 1 missile to hit their country without responding with their full arsenal.

    I can't imagine more then 50 being needed. 50 nuclear missiles could destroy every major American industrial center.

    To create truly functional MAD you'd need to have the arsenal submarine based because subs can't effectively be countered, so there would never be a temptation for a first strike in an attempt to cripple the other sides retaliatory ability.

    All of this isn't my opinion, it's a historical fact, it's what Henry Kissinger and the SALT treaties actually did, although not to the degree that I (and Kissinger) think it should be done.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  9. #59
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    If I met that guy in Britain I'd immediately despise him as a selfish, classist, xenophobic, snob. We don't really use the term "liberal" but he is definetly NOT left-wing.

    I'll say with a huge degree of certainty that he has voted for the Conservative party in Britain his entire life.
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

  10. #60
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Are the people in these videos stereotypical liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    I don't know the exact number of missiles you'd need, that'd be a calculation that would be created by each country based upon their values.

    I suspect the Soviets would be value their people less, but still I'd doubt they'd be willing to allow even 1 missile to hit their country without responding with their full arsenal.

    I can't imagine more then 50 being needed. 50 nuclear missiles could destroy every major American industrial center.

    To create truly functional MAD you'd need to have the arsenal submarine based because subs can't effectively be countered, so there would never be a temptation for a first strike in an attempt to cripple the other sides retaliatory ability.

    All of this isn't my opinion, it's a historical fact, it's what Henry Kissinger and the SALT treaties actually did, although not to the degree that I (and Kissinger) think it should be done.
    I think these response clearly indicate you really don't understand MAD. Nor do you understand military strategy. I'm not trying to be flippant here. But you just pulled the number '50' out of your hat. It means nothing. Any more than the idea that the number of nuclear missiles required for MAD is based on our values.

    While MAD is very controversial, because of the very nature of the threat it poses, it was also based on very carefully thought out strategies involving years of research and deployment and political maneuvering, including 'first strike capability' and 'second strike capability', the development of MIRVS and submarine ballistic launch capability, among many other factors.

    It might make interesting reading. You obviously know enough to mention SALT and second strike capability. But then you discard that knowledge with your baseless assumption that 50 would be sufficient. Entirely baseless.
    Last edited by Grateful Heart; 02-23-09 at 04:17 PM.

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