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Thread: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

  1. #71
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I have a question. Is there ANY tax hike in history that you don't consider an apocalyptic event that will result in a total economic collapse and zombies taking over the world?
    Objecting to crippling tax hikes in the middle of "the worst crisis since the Great Depression" is casting gloom and doom on every tax hike?

    Weak smear. Try actually debating sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Your huffing and puffing might be a little more believable if I didn't think you'd do exactly the same thing no matter HOW large or small Obama's tax hike was.
    Any tax hike during "the worst crisis since the Great Depression" would be a mistake-the larger the tax hike, the larger the mistake. Objecting to that is a sign of intelligence, not hysteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Let's have some perspective here. Raising the tax rate from 35% to 38% on people making more than ~$350K is not going to cause the armageddon. We had higher tax rates in the 80s and 90s, and we were fine.
    We weren't in the worst crisis since the Great Depression during the 80s and 90s. Sorry I keep going back to that slogan of Obama's...I'm trying to "choose hope over fear."

    Clinton taxed a boom into a recession. Reagan cut the crap out of Carter's disastrous mid-recession tax hikes and doubled federal revenues, while creating sweeping economic growth.

    Not rocket science.
    Last edited by aquapub; 02-24-09 at 08:25 AM.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  2. #72
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The tax cuts were never permanent to begin with. That's why they have an expiration built in. Get it now? Good.
    Obnoxiously stupid comeback, as always. He wasn't claiming they were permanent, just pointing out that the pathological liar of a president we have is misrepresenting things when he tries to justify further decimating the economy by falsely claiming that the only people affected are "the rich."

    "They tell you they're not going to tax YOUR family. No, they're just going to tax "businesses." So, unless you BUY something from a business, like groceries or clothes or gasoline or unless you get a PAYCHECK from a business...don't worry, it's not going to affect YOU. They say they're not going to take any water out of YOUR side of the bucket, just the OTHER side of the bucket."

    -Fred Thompson
    Last edited by aquapub; 02-24-09 at 08:23 AM.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  3. #73
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    If your small business is making 250k a year, why wouldn't you incorporate? From what I understand, it would give you a tax break rather than paying personal income tax.

    Does anyone know how many small businesses make over 250k and aren't incorporated? 2 or 3%?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
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  4. #74
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    You quoted him and gave that response. You said that NYC metro area firefighters and nurses fit that description!

    It's not a semantics game when you don't comprehend the posts you quote and respond to. There is a word for it though.



    either the few was added or it was missed. but dont let that stop you from playing games..


    bush tax cuts expire, that is a net raise for everyone.


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  5. #75
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    either the few was added or it was missed. but dont let that stop you from playing games..


    bush tax cuts expire, that is a net raise for everyone.
    If it was added, it was still before you quoted it. It's highly doubtful though. That is because of the fact that only people making over 250k are affected. That's obviously what he was referring to.

    What game am I playing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  6. #76
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    So is he letting the tax cuts on partially expire for those making 250k or more?


    How does he do that?


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  7. #77
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    It sounds like you describe rich people with no understanding of the real world works.
    It sounds like you have no understanding of my argument.

    That a person with a low income or regular middle class background useally know it can come rainy days.
    A specious generalization with no basis in fact whatsoever. Tell me, if these lower and middle class folks are so financially savvy then why are they defaulting en masse on their mortgages?

    If you then have worked you way up and earn 250 K a year, you understand that it could be good to save some of those money and also that you have the ability to do that.
    Then I assume you'll be holding the lower and middle class families to the same standard of self-reliance? No bailouts for them...

    More importantly, a lot of these "rich people" (small business owners) aren't asking for government handouts. They're simply asking to keep more of THEIR money during an economic crisis instead of having to fire one of their employees or dip into their retirement funds as you so casually suggested.

    Instead you seem like describing people feed up with a golden spoon that think money can be spend recklesly without any though about the future.
    A baseless assumption and a straw man to boot.

    Perhaps you should apply this standard of "recklessness" to everyone instead of demonizing and targeting a specific group.

  8. #78
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    My simple though is that an income of 250 k means that you have a large ability to plan your economy. That after paying for necessities you have a lot of many left to be spend on luxury but also saving for tougher times. If you earn that much and don't save any, yes I would call that person reckless. And if a small business owner during one of the worst economic crisis makes a personal earning of 250 k or more he could then be happy about that fact. To show his thankfully he could accept a little higher tax without firing an employee.

  9. #79
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What do you mean that's "only $7,500"? $7,500 dollars is not a paltry sum; especially for a small business owner with a family and a mortgage.
    Again, that was using the most favorable numbers to your case imaginable. In reality, the person earning exactly $250K (if that was the cutoff) would not be affected by the change at all, as the tax bracket starts at $250K. And even a person earning $500K would see his effective tax rate increase by much less than 3%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    I'm not contesting the fact that the mental midgets in Washington need money to pay for the vast array of government programs they've enacted. I'm disputing the notion that they somehow need it more than people like my dad, i.e. small business owners with a family and a mortgage, or that it actually matters what the fat-cats in Washington want or need.
    If the "fat-cats in Washington" were taking your dad's money and spending it entirely on themselves, then I would agree. But for the most part, they are spending it on health care, energy, education, infrastructure, and many other public services that people want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    While you're milking the cow you'll manage to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
    See my previous point re: having higher tax rates in the 80s and 90s and our economy doing just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Our economy is in a very bad spot right now and Americans from all walks of life are going to need every red cent to stay afloat. That money could go a long way for a small business owner in keeping people under his employ and keeping his family under a roof.
    Sure, but the tax cuts don't expire until the end of 2010...which means the change won't affect anyone until 2011. It doesn't make much sense to cite our current economic condition as justification for making temporary tax cuts permanent instead of letting them expire in two years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    The inability of Washington fat-cats to spend within their means is not a valid justification for raising taxes.
    Seems like pretty good justification to me, since the alternative is to rack up the debt. And please don't give me any of that "starving the beast" nonsense, because that has never worked. The annual federal budget hasn't declined a single time since 1965.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    I'm not sure why simply having money is justification for taking it and allocating it towards programs from which the taxed individual will derive no conceivable benefit.
    Well, let's look at this logically:
    1) We, as a society, have determined (through elections) that we want the government to pay for certain services.
    2) There are three ways of paying for things: Printing, borrowing, and taxing.
    3) Printing is risky. In severe recessions, a little printing isn't too terrible because it counteracts deflation, but in almost every other economic situation it should be avoided.
    4) Borrowing isn't risky, but it is essentially the same as taxing. It's just taxing future generations instead of present generations.
    5) That leaves us with taxation. So whom do we tax to pay for the government programs that our society has determined it wants? People who HAVE money to tax, or people who DON'T have money to tax? Should we get our milk from the cow or the bull?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    If you have some valid moral principle from which you are trying to argue be sure to let me know.
    See, that's the thing. I'm not a moralizing ideologue. I don't derive my policy views from rigid moral prescriptions about what policy is right for all-time in every situation. I derive my policy views from solid economic principles that actually, y'know, make sense.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-24-09 at 04:43 PM.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    This is madness. Obama has got to be denied a Congressional majority in 2010:

    The Right-Wing Underground: Obama Announces Massive, Crushing Tax Hikes

    Will kicking "the rich" (the small business owners who create all the jobs and already pay 60% of the taxes) while their down with one of the most gigantic tax hikes in U.S. history make what Barack "hope over fear" Obama constantly insists is the "greatest crisis since the Great Depression" better or worse?

    First of all, the source is a "rightwingunderground" blog. Lets assume he is going to raise taxes enormously. You have no other option. Its as simple as that. Your country have to raise taxes and lower spending at the same time. Thats just the only way you will avoid complete and destructive collapse and civil war.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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