On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

rivrrat · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Children needs both masculin and feminine impulses, neither which gays can provide, except a confusing mix of both.

Thats NOT what a child needs, therefor I stick with the common sense option that gay parents 99% sure make worse parents on average that straights.

Children's natural impulses come from within, not without. They don't get "impulses" from their parents.

I assume you mean "influences". In which case a female can most certainly provide masculine influences, and vice versa. Not to mention the fact that rarely - if ever - does a couple raise a child in a vacuum. There are other people in a child's life. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, sisters, brothers, friends, teachers, etc. Just because someone has only one parent, or has two parents of the same gender does NOT mean that they never see, talk to, or learn from the other gender. The idea that they are in some dark hole with just their parent or parents is pretty preposterous.

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 27, 2009

rivrrat said:
Children's natural impulses come from within, not without. They don't get "impulses" from their parents.

Yeah.. :roll:

Most impulses are strongly influence by leartn behaviours.

rivrrat said:
I assume you mean "influences". In which case a female can most certainly provide masculine influences, and vice versa. Not to mention the fact that rarely - if ever - does a couple raise a child in a vacuum. There are other people in a child's life. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, sisters, brothers, friends, teachers, etc. Just because someone has only one parent, or has two parents of the same gender does NOT mean that they never see, talk to, or learn from the other gender. The idea that they are in some dark hole with just their parent or parents is pretty preposterous.

1. Men and women are not the same.
2. Are you saying that parents arent the most important factor in a childs life?
3. I never said they were in a dark hole with just their parents.

rivrrat · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Yeah.. :roll:

Most impulses are strongly influence by leartn behaviours.

Like what?

1. Men and women are not the same.

Who said they were? That's like saying every man is the same. It's just stupid.

What I DID say was that women can portray traditionally "masculine" influences, and vice versa. Now, want to try and prove that wrong without stating the obvious and irrelevant "women and men aren't the same"?

2. Are you saying that parents arent the most important factor in a childs life?

No, I believe I said exactly what I said. Which was this:

Not to mention the fact that rarely - if ever - does a couple raise a child in a vacuum. There are other people in a child's life. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, sisters, brothers, friends, teachers, etc. Just because someone has only one parent, or has two parents of the same gender does NOT mean that they never see, talk to, or learn from the other gender. The idea that they are in some dark hole with just their parent or parents is pretty preposterous.

3. I never said they were in a dark hole with just their parents.

Well then why do you presume that someone raised with just one parent, or raised by two parents of the same gender would be lacking in the influences of the opposite gender?

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 27, 2009

rivrrat said:
Like what?

Like just about everything. By nature humans are savage primitive animals. But then again, leartn behaviour.

rivrrat said:
Well then why do you presume that someone raised with just one parent, or raised by two parents of the same gender would be lacking in the influences of the opposite gender?

Yes, lacking the proper influences from both genders. It seems like you are only talking about the surface, I am not.

You have no apparent knowledge of how deep a parent-child relation is..

rivrrat · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Like just about everything. By nature humans are savage primitive animals. But then again, leartn behaviour.

You believe all human impulses and instincts are learned behavior?

Yes, lacking the proper influences from both genders. It seems like you are only talking about the surface, I am not.

No, I am not talking about the surface.

So, how can someone who is around both genders on a daily basis be lacking in the influence of both genders?

You have no apparent knowledge of how deep a parent-child relation is..

Of course, because I'm not a child myself. I was found under a cabbage patch. :roll: :lol:

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 27, 2009

rivrrat said:
You believe all human impulses and instincts are learned behavior?

Not all, most. The only real human impulses we have left is sexual impulses. The rest is mostly learned behaviours, and learned denial of behaviours.

rivrrat said:
Of course, because I'm not a child myself. I was found under a cabbage patch. :roll: :lol:

Really?

How is that possible? :mrgreen:

Kal'Stang · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Hello!!! Its OBVIOUSLY NOT the same.. Geez. How about masculine AND feminine impulses?

You didn't show that.. You talked about gay people in a straight relationship.. Anyways, there is no long term research about those people who grew up with two dads. For all you know those spawns could be the ones who ended up serial killers and rapists and so on.

Hmm...you might want to read what you just said here..."gay people in a straight relationship". Homosexuals in a straight relationship raising kids. Hmm...what does that say to you? That homosexuals have been raising kids?

And CC's links does have dad/dad parents in them.

Kal'Stang · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Women and men are not the same.

Again of course they are not the same. Hello?!?!?! One's an inney, ones an outtie. But that doesn't mean that they cannot teach the same things that the other can.

Kal'Stang · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
They aren't the same. One man and one woman is not the same as two men or two women.
And why in the heck should they be able to adopt if they aren't BETTER parents? Why should we decide out of pity that two men should be allowed to adopt and raise a child, thats just INSANE. The need isn't there.

Geeze this "not the same" is becoming a mantra with you isn't it? Studies of kids raised by mom/dads or mom/mom or dad/dad shows no real difference between the them. They all have grown up to be well adjusted adults.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Perhaps thats just a sing that the whole adoption system is bad. Perhaps they should be more liberal with who they let adopt, I know plenty of cases where perfectly normal straight couples were not allowed to adopt because of some technicalities. Thats NO reason to allow two men or two women to adopt.

The rules are there for a reason. You don't just throw away the rules just because there are people that are on the verge of being eligible but are not. And you certainly don't throw out the rules just because some people are against homosexuals adopting so try to do what they can to not allow them to adopt. There is no good reason not to allow homosexuals the right to adopt.

And since you brought it up just what exactly are those 'technicalities' that you say should be thrown out to allow opposite sex parents adopt?

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 27, 2009

Kal'Stang said:
Hmm...you might want to read what you just said here..."gay people in a straight relationship". Homosexuals in a straight relationship raising kids. Hmm...what does that say to you? That homosexuals have been raising kids?

And CC's links does have dad/dad parents in them.

Not the same as a gay couple at all. A homosexual in a straight relationship is not the same as the parallel child having two dads.

Kal'Stang · Feb 27, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Not the same as a gay couple at all. A homosexual in a straight relationship is not the same as the parallel child having two dads.

Yet it is still a homosexual raising kids. Remember a homosexual according to you cannot teach about the 'impusles' of the opposite sex. But the very fact that they are homosexual means that they have a tendency to think the opposite or, more accurately, closer to the opposite sex than a heterosexual. In other words it evens out. In a heterosexual family lifestyle the parents think male or female depending on thier gender. In a homosexual family lifestyle the parents will think both male and female regardless of thier gender. aka homosexuals are more in touch with both sides of thier Id than heterosexuals. Because of this I would posit that a homosexual living in a heterosexual family (ie still in the closet) is not as good for the kids as a straight heterosexual or straight homosexual family.

CaptainCourtesy · Feb 28, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
I did say that. But if gay parents aren't better than straight ones, why should they then be allowed to adopt? No need then.. If they aren't better they can at best be equal, and all common sense says two men raising a child is not the same as one woman and one man..

You just contradicted yourself. They are equal, but they are not the same. No, they are equal. And since this is the case, why shouldn't they be allowed to adopt.

Children needs both masculin and feminine impulses, neither which gays can provide, except a confusing mix of both. Thats NOT what a child needs, therefor I stick with the common sense option that gay parents 99% sure make worse parents on average that straights.

And now, we've made a full circle. You have no evidence to show this, and "common sense" as you put it, has been shown to be wrong. Is the earth flat? You have your opinion, Maximus. It doesn't stand the test of evidence, but it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

What are you? Doing an all nighter btw?

I'm a chronic insomniac. I seldom get to sleep before 6 or 7 AM my time. DP keeps me from laying in bed contemplating ways to take over the world. :mrgreen:

CaptainCourtesy · Feb 28, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
Hello!!! Its OBVIOUSLY NOT the same.. Geez. How about masculine AND feminine impulses?

You didn't show that.. You talked about gay people in a straight relationship.. Anyways, there is no long term research about those people who grew up with two dads. For all you know those spawns could be the ones who ended up serial killers and rapists and so on.

Guess what? As far as I know, no serial killers were "spawned" by gay parents. All were either from straight, or single parent households. I guess we should outlaw those types of parental arrangements, eh? :roll:

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 28, 2009

CaptainCourtesy said:
Guess what? As far as I know, no serial killers were "spawned" by gay parents. All were either from straight, or single parent households. I guess we should outlaw those types of parental arrangements, eh? :roll:

I don't think biologically that is even possible. :lol:

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 28, 2009

CaptainCourtesy said:
You just contradicted yourself. They are equal, but they are not the same. No, they are equal. And since this is the case, why shouldn't they be allowed to adopt.:

They arent equal, and even if they are equal(which they at best can be), then why should the be allowed to adopt? What possible reason should there be for our society to seal the fate of a child and sign into law the possibility of someone involunteerly growing up in an unnatural situation with two dads for example. What possible need is there for that?

CaptainCourtesy said:
And now, we've made a full circle. You have no evidence to show this, and "common sense" as you put it, has been shown to be wrong. Is the earth flat? You have your opinion, Maximus. It doesn't stand the test of evidence, but it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

It never was common sense that the earth was flat. It was common belief. Common sense, and common belief are two very different things.

CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm a chronic insomniac. I seldom get to sleep before 6 or 7 AM my time. DP keeps me from laying in bed contemplating ways to take over the world. :mrgreen:

Ahaha, you and Kim Jung Ill.

Kal'Stang · Feb 28, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
It never was common sense that the earth was flat. It was common belief. Common sense, and common belief are two very different things.

It was common sense that the Earth was flat then. Common sense is based off of what a person knows and believes. They knew that the Earth was flat. Therefore it was common sense to believe that it was. Its common sense based on statistics that there is no good reason why a homosexual cannot adopt kids. The only real reason that you've given for why a homosexual couldn't adopt is because for the most part heterosexuals have been the ones raising kids. IE you base your assertions on tradition. Not actual facts or data.

The common sense of the time said that the earth was flat. They were proved wrong. It was common sense that homosexual could not raise kids as well as heterosexuals 30 years ago. They were proved wrong.

Edit note: Added last paragraph.

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 28, 2009

Kal'Stang said:
It was common sense that the Earth was flat then. Common sense is based off of what a person knows and believes. They knew that the Earth was flat. Therefore it was common sense to believe that it was. Its common sense based on statistics that there is no good reason why a homosexual cannot adopt kids. The only real reason that you've given for why a homosexual couldn't adopt is because for the most part heterosexuals have been the ones raising kids. IE you base your assertions on tradition. Not actual facts or data.

The common sense of the time said that the earth was flat. They were proved wrong. It was common sense that homosexual could not raise kids as well as heterosexuals 30 years ago. They were proved wrong.

Edit note: Added last paragraph.

I don't think you quite know what common sense is..

Again its annoying how you try to pin this on traditions when its so much more.. Prove to me that two men make better parents than a straight couple.. If you cant, then why the hell should gays be allowed to adopt if there is no need for it? Why should gays be allowed to adopt if they are at BEST equally good parents as straight, and since they aren't better, the likelihood is that they are worse rather than equal on average. Common sense dictates that society should NOT let two men raise a child for example. Children should grow up with a mom and dad, thats the best.

Kal'Stang · Feb 28, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
I don't think you quite know what common sense is..

:roll:

Maximus Zeebra said:
Again its annoying how you try to pin this on traditions when its so much more.. Prove to me that two men make better parents than a straight couple.. If you cant, then why the hell should gays be allowed to adopt if there is no need for it? Why should gays be allowed to adopt if they are at BEST equally good parents as straight, and since they aren't better, the likelihood is that they are worse rather than equal on average. Common sense dictates that society should NOT let two men raise a child for example. Children should grow up with a mom and dad, thats the best.

No need? If there was no need then there would be no children in the foster care system. Obviously there is a need.

And I have never stated that two men make better parents than a straight couple. I have stated that they make just as good a parents as straights. Statistics shows this.

And since you continueally state that a mom and a dad is "best" to raise kids in then how about you show us some statistics that show that.

Kali · Mar 1, 2009

What a silly question! I look forward to the day when questions like these are no longer asked

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 1, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
They arent equal, and even if they are equal(which they at best can be), then why should the be allowed to adopt? What possible reason should there be for our society to seal the fate of a child and sign into law the possibility of someone involunteerly growing up in an unnatural situation with two dads for example. What possible need is there for that?

You continue to contradict yourself. "even if they are equal" and "growing up in an unnatural enviorment". You're losing it, Maximus. You can't even keep straight what your argument is, and you are exposing yourself, more and more, to your entire position being value oriented, devoid of any substantiation. I, again, will ask, show any substantiation that, statistically, a child growing up in a home with two gay parents is harmful.

It never was common sense that the earth was flat. It was common belief. Common sense, and common belief are two very different things.

Please explain the difference.

Ahaha, you and Kim Jung Ill.

But I'm prettier. :2razz:

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 1, 2009

Kal'Stang said:
:roll:

No need? If there was no need then there would be no children in the foster care system. Obviously there is a need.

And I have never stated that two men make better parents than a straight couple. I have stated that they make just as good a parents as straights. Statistics shows this.

And since you continueally state that a mom and a dad is "best" to raise kids in then how about you show us some statistics that show that.

No need for those parents to be gay. Just revitalize the program and get more normal people involved.
Its really annoying when you say mom/dad is not the best way to raise children... :lol:
Its actually sad, quite sad.

Are you one of those liberals? Perhaps it would be best for children to grow up with transsexual bisexual drug addicts whom like to touch children.. Any statistics that that isnt the best way to grow up?

Maximus Zeebra · Mar 1, 2009

Kali said:
What a silly question! I look forward to the day when questions like these are no longer asked

The day when transexuals are in a majority, in homosexual relationships, holding other mens hands in the streets, before they go into a boutique to shoot up on heroin, the store which ofcourse is run by lesbians with children, since men are now obsolete and women just milk them for sperm donations. The wonderful world where the worlds biggest idiot is the president, and the election is rigged and everyone just accepts that, his boyfriend, the dog barky just got married, he had to break up with the necrophiliac John who just stayed inside and played games all day and just rolled over to have legal sex with the dead bodies inbetween.

That day there will no longer be questions about gay people raising children. The next thing to liberalize on then is probably pedophile marriage or something similar.

Kal'Stang · Mar 2, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
No need for those parents to be gay. Just revitalize the program and get more normal people involved.
Its really annoying when you say mom/dad is not the best way to raise children... :lol:

And how exactly are you going to "revitalize" the program? Though even then it wouldn't get all the children out of the system. Even if you let homosexuals also adopt there will still be children in the system. However there will be less than without.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Its actually sad, quite sad.

Are you one of those liberals? Perhaps it would be best for children to grow up with transsexual bisexual drug addicts whom like to touch children.. Any statistics that that isnt the best way to grow up?

No whats sad is that you don't want a couple of homosexuals raising a kid just because they are homosexual. Even though it has been shown that kids raised in a normal homosexual home are just as well adjusted as the kids raised in a normal heterosexual home.

And if argueing for the rights of someone is considered being a liberal then fine..label me so. You'd be incorrect but hey...we all have our opinions. At least my opinions are based off of scientific studies and not tradition.

Kal'Stang · Mar 2, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
The day when transexuals are in a majority, in homosexual relationships, holding other mens hands in the streets, before they go into a boutique to shoot up on heroin, the store which ofcourse is run by lesbians with children, since men are now obsolete and women just milk them for sperm donations. The wonderful world where the worlds biggest idiot is the president, and the election is rigged and everyone just accepts that, his boyfriend, the dog barky just got married, he had to break up with the necrophiliac John who just stayed inside and played games all day and just rolled over to have legal sex with the dead bodies inbetween.

That day there will no longer be questions about gay people raising children. The next thing to liberalize on then is probably pedophile marriage or something similar.

And with this one post you have shown that all of your opinions are colored in biased rhetoric. Thank you for invalidating all of your other "concerns".

And because of this post I think I'll stop responding to you until you actually bring up that proof that I asked for...the proof thats been asked from you through out this thread by more people than just me...the proof that you have yet to show.

And since you continually state that a mom and a dad is "best" to raise kids in then how about you show us some statistics that show that.

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 2, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
No need for those parents to be gay. Just revitalize the program and get more normal people involved.
Its really annoying when you say mom/dad is not the best way to raise children... :lol:
Its actually sad, quite sad.

Are you one of those liberals? Perhaps it would be best for children to grow up with transsexual bisexual drug addicts whom like to touch children.. Any statistics that that isnt the best way to grow up?

Maximus Zeebra said:
The day when transexuals are in a majority, in homosexual relationships, holding other mens hands in the streets, before they go into a boutique to shoot up on heroin, the store which ofcourse is run by lesbians with children, since men are now obsolete and women just milk them for sperm donations. The wonderful world where the worlds biggest idiot is the president, and the election is rigged and everyone just accepts that, his boyfriend, the dog barky just got married, he had to break up with the necrophiliac John who just stayed inside and played games all day and just rolled over to have legal sex with the dead bodies inbetween.

That day there will no longer be questions about gay people raising children. The next thing to liberalize on then is probably pedophile marriage or something similar.

Maximus, you do two things in these posts:

1) Show that your opinion is based on stereotypical rhetoric, bias, and prejudice, and nothing more.

2) Show that you still have neither answered the question for evidence, and have continued to try to spin the question/issue.

Thus far, you have offered little to debate. Please give us something.

On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

On average would straight couples make better parents then a gay couple?

Yes

No

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