View Poll Results: On average would straight couples make better parents then a gay couple?

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Thread: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

  1. #151
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    How about 10000 years for an example?
    You still haven't answered my question. What is the difference between common sense and common belief?
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #152
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Here's a question that maybe someone with more knowledge on these statistics than I (looking at you CC) can provide.

    I have a feeling that on average any parents who want to adopt end up being better parents than a good percentage of biological parents.
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  3. #153
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    Here's a question that maybe someone with more knowledge on these statistics than I (looking at you CC) can provide.

    I have a feeling that on average any parents who want to adopt end up being better parents than a good percentage of biological parents.
    Great question. I had some statistics on that...I'll need to go find them. My recollection is that your premise is accurate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #154
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I think when it comes to adoption, fostering, etc. they probably are equal when you're comparing stable homes and stable relationships.

    However when you get into gays and lesbians having their own biological children with a partner unless both biological parents are somehow involved in the upbringing of the child things can never be equal. Nobody wants a sperm donor father and nobody desires a surrogate mother. Whenever either biological parent is completely absent from a child's life there are some repercussions. There will always be some form of an emotional hole as the child ages and realizes that one of their biological parents is completely absent.

    So I'm all for allowing gays and lesbians to adopt. But when it comes to creating their own children I heavily advocate that they find a biological parent who wants to be involved with the couple on some level so the child never has that missing piece emotional hole. Lesbians can do a great job raising a kid but they will do a far better job if they utilize and support the active involvement of the man who biologically fathered the child. Likewise with gays. It may be far more convenient to create a child with someone who will opt out of their parenting rights but it's a selfish practice that diminishes and makes light of every little child's need to feel loved by the two adults that created him or her.
    You would think this to be true. Early age abandonment can be innately traumatic. This goes along with early deaths of biological parents, too. I had always operated under the assumption that an adoption must cause some sort of distress. Guess what? Not usually. This goes along with the nature vs. nurture theory. From what I've seen, nurture wins out. This has been a fascinating issue to me, so I've done some "light" research with clients I've worked with. Not empirical by any means, it's based on my observations over the years...and coming from a hypothesis that you would be correct. Most kids I've worked with, who were adopted and never had contact with their biological parents, couldn't give a hoot. Psychologically, the abandonment issues that they had were no more significant than kids who were raised mostly by nanny's. In fact, from my experience, the incidence of significant abandonment issues translating to psychological problems, especially personality disorders is no greater than kids of biological parents. However, However, the few kids I've had that had contact with biological parents, had a greater incidence of identity disturbance, creates uncertainty in the solidity of their relationship with their adoptive parents, and worsens the "fantasy" imagery of the biological parent. Research I've read supports this.

    Though my premise was the opposite, everything I've seen is that nurture is more powerful than nature. Does this mean that biology is meaningless? No. If you are a good parent, your parenting will transcend whether your children are biologically yours or not.

    This discussion leads into my next post, an answer to ROC's question.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #155
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Do adoptive or biological parents parent better? Maximus would say that common sense would say biological parents. And of Maximus said that, he would be consistent. Consistently wrong. Let me start by saying that YMMV. The best indicator of a positive outcome for a child is that child growing up with two caring, loving, parents, regardless of biology or sexual orientation. Stats may show one thing, but if you are a loving, caring parent, you are giving your child the best chance at a positive outcome, regardless of your family structure. Even a single parent, caring and loving, would do better than a pair of biological parents who beat their child. Individual response and relativity, ultimately, rule the day.

    One last disclaimer. Most of the research that I've seen does distinguish between family structures. Statistically, children of single-parent families do worse. Fewer resources are often cited as the reason. Children in blended (step) families tend to suffer from confusing parental roles. Also the impact of divorce affects them. These factors, especially those in blended families can be mitigated, but it requires a lot of work...sometimes more than the parents are willing to exercise. In my 20 years of working with thousands of kids, my experience matches what the research shows. Kids of single parents or divorced parents tend to have more difficulty, not universally, but statistically, Many of the problems with divorce can be lowered with a lot of parental work.

    That being said, on to the research. In empirical studies comparing biological parents to adoptive parents several componets are looked at. Data was looked at to consider whether Kin Theory or Compensation Theory would do better to describe the outcomes for children in a variety of familial structures.

    Kin Theory (Hamilton) goes with "common sense";
    parental investment as a form of reproductive survival in which parents display discriminative parenting”. Altruistic behavior in humans is adaptive when it increases the genetic fitness of individuals. Because parents incur economic, physical, and mental costs in raising a child, they purportedly invest the most in those who have the greatest amount of shared genetic material—their biological children.
    Makes sense, eh? But wait, how does this explain the data that shows that on several scales, stastistically, adoptive parents do better than biological parents? Compensation Theory:

    Some scholars contend that although adoptive families encounter unique barriers to family functioning, they also have particular psychological and social strengths (Cohen, Coyne, and Duvall 1993; Lansford et al. 2001).
    For example, Kirk (1984) suggests that adoptive parents often have intensified commitments to creating an ideal family—particularly if their
    path to parenthood is long and costly. Adoptive parents also may have a more positive view of their children and experiences as parents (Priel
    et al. 2000). Lending support to compensation theories, these strengths tend to coexist with low self-evaluations of parenting ability that
    may reflect feelings of ambivalence, doubt, and guilt surrounding adoptive parenthood (Priel et al. 2000; Verhulst, Althaus, and Versluis-Den
    Bieman 1990).
    What is found is that in an effort to compensate for societies view of adoptive parents, to compensate for concerns for the children being adopted, these parents will compensate by being more attentive, more involved in their child's school, and more involved in their child's activities. There is a confound to many of the studies. It is factual that parents with a higher socioeconomic standing tend to be better at all of the things mentioned above. However, when the data is examined taking this variable into consideration, the adoptive parents still perform better. In my analysis, I believe that the socioeconomic factors may be underestimated. However, even if I am correct, the results support what I have been saying all along:

    Children in two parent households will do as well regardless of biology or sexual orientation. And, yes, the implications of the research is extended to gay parents, as these parents fall under compensation theory...in fact most of the research I have posted in the past, mirrors what Compensation Theory asserts. Gay parents do not fall under the blended family...at least in the context that we are discussing.

    I'm sure that there will still be some that will shout "common sense"!!! Deaf ears, folks. Common sense is that two loving, caring, involved parents regardless of biology or sexual orientation will produce, statistically, the best functioning children. It's what I've seen. It's what the research says. I see nor have heard nothing to convince me otherwise.

    Links used in this and the previous post include the multitude of links I have used in the past, and include the following, additionally:

    http://www.asanet.org/galleries/defa...SRAdoption.pdf
    http://www.futureofchildren.org/usr_doc/vol3no1ART9.PDF
    http://www.iaccenter.com/adoptive_investment.pdf
    Adoptive Parents Invest More: Parenting Styles Differ If Children Are Adopted or Biological

    I also remember posting more information.links in another thread, about a year ago. It's late, so if y'all would like me to locate them, I'll do it tomorrow.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #156
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You still haven't answered my question. What is the difference between common sense and common belief?
    Did I not explain that pretty well with the whole God example?
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  7. #157
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    That might be valid if you could prove that not one single homosexual ever raised a kid during the last 10,000 years, and didn't raise them just as good as a heterosexual.

    GL with that.

    Edit note: made a clairification.
    Well, you prove to me that gay couples, two men for example have raised children, and that they have done it better than straights.. If they havent its highly unlikely they are even equal good parents, because a man & a man is not the same as a woman & a man, and therefor unlikely equal at raising a child either..

    How about a childs right to grow up with a mother? Only the most unfortunate children do not, if their mother die or something. Its the most natural human relationship.. You want to take that away?
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  8. #158
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Great question. I had some statistics on that...I'll need to go find them. My recollection is that your premise is accurate.
    Dont you think adopted children deserves to have a mother?
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  9. #159
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Did I not explain that pretty well with the whole God example?
    Unbelievable, after Captain completely disassembled your argument, all you can counter with is one over simplistic analogy.

    Good to see that you have also avoided my follow up post as well.

    Keep this up and you could get yourself a place on the Harvard Jessup Moot team.....

  10. #160
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    Re: On average would straight couples make better parents then gay couples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Dont you think adopted children deserves to have a mother?
    Now you are weaseling away from your original premise.

    SO ANSWER THE QUESTION, after seeing Captain's detailed posts do you still think that gay parents will make terrible parents compared to heterosexual couples?

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