View Poll Results: What percentage are actual libertarians?

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  • Almost 100%

    4 19.05%
  • About 50%

    6 28.57%
  • Maybe 25%

    6 28.57%
  • Less than 10%

    5 23.81%
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Thread: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

  1. #21
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    RiverDad's Avatar
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    From a purely pragmatic perspective though, in order to deny the privilege of government recognized marriage to a group, then you have to demonstrate how granting them that right / privilege impedes the rights of others. You can't argue that by giving them that privilege, they may try to use it to get another privilege you don't want them to have.
    I've already laid out the objections, on this front, to gay marriage, in the gay marriage thread. A quick summary, laws change to reflect the experiences of those people participating in a regulated activity. For instance, work place laws have changed to accommodate the greater role of women in the workplace today compared to their presence in the workplace 50 and 100 years ago.

    Secondly, society has gotten itself into this quandary by accepting the creeping intrusion of government into the realm of marriage. Where we used to have two widely separated, but still minimally interactive, realms, governance and custom, we now have these two realm more tightly integrated, so governance changes can have large impact on the customs of society. Customs have a very powerful effect on life outcomes for citizens. To give you an example, in much of Africa inheritance flows from father to the children of his sister because relationship customs in marriages are such that husbands cannot be sure that the children borne to him by his wife are his own. This custom ripples through society and affects all sorts of downstream issues:
    There are two reasons 11-year-old Chikumbutso Zuze never sees his three sisters, why he seldom has a full belly, why he sleeps packed sardinelike with six cousins on the dirt floor of his aunt's thatched mud hut.

    One is AIDS, which claimed his father in 2000 and his mother in 2001. The other is his father's nephew, a tall, light-complexioned man whom Chikumbutso knows only as Mr. Sululu.

    It was Mr. Sululu who came to his village five years ago, after his father died, and commandeered all of the family's belongings -- mattresses, chairs and, most important, the family's green Toyota pickup, an almost unimaginable luxury in this, one of the poorest nations on earth. And it was Mr. Sululu who rejected the pleas of the boy's mother, herself dying of AIDS, to leave the truck so that her children would have an inheritance to sustain them after her death. . . . .

    Actually, the answer is simple: custom. Throughout sub-Saharan Africa the death of a father automatically entitles his side of the family to claim most, if not all, of the property he leaves behind, even if it leaves his survivors destitute.
    The downstream consequences of government taking an active role in changing societal customs and then promoting and incentivizing the redefinition of marriage and family can affect everyone in society.

    We don't live in a society which is characterized by a minimalist government. So, until we do it's a fool's game to pretend that governance can be enacted while leaving the enforcement of customs strictly to the community.

    Lastly, libertarianism is NOT solely about gay marriage.

  2. #22
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    There's a Constitutional Right to Privacy? Was that written in invisible ink or something?
    See: Ninth Amendment.

  3. #23
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    I don't think it's that cut-and-dry. The Libertarian Party platform does not dictate the reality of libertarianism as a whole.

    I was against the decision to invade Iraq, but I've always argued strongly in favor of finishing the job as a matter of practicality.

    I dislike very much the fact that we give Israel such a substantial amount of foreign aid, but I unequivocally affirm their right to exist and I almost always agree with the actions they take against Palestine in defense of their nation.

    I am vehemently pro-life but this is not due to any religious belief. I hold that the unborn are persons deserving of rights, as such, this is in no way contradictory to my libertarian ideology.

    I'm also a strong proponent of the Fourteenth Amendment.

    But I'm in staunch opposition to NSA wire-tapping, FISA, and the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    there are four kinds of libertarians:

    Secret Republicans: Libertarians that are libertarian until it violates some sacred Republican principle, usually drugs or Israel

    Psychos: Compound dwelling heavily armed blackhelicoptertarians

    College libertarians: Liberals that like to be faux-intellectual and contrarian with all their Democrat voting friends

    Pauligans: Ron Paul cultists.
    It's better than being a naive poser who obtained his political perspective from MTV and Hollywood.

  4. #24
    Old Soul

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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    there are four kinds of libertarians:

    Secret Republicans: Libertarians that are libertarian until it violates some sacred Republican principle, usually drugs or Israel

    Psychos: Compound dwelling heavily armed blackhelicoptertarians

    College libertarians: Liberals that like to be faux-intellectual and contrarian with all their Democrat voting friends

    Pauligans: Ron Paul cultists.
    dude everyone knows there are 5

  5. #25
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Personally, I know a lot of people that claim to be libertarians. Most of them have defended the war in Iraq to me.
    The war in Iraq was the result of not finishing it right in 91, the oil for food scandal, American policy since 91, and saddams bluf.


    Defended the suspension of Habeas Corpus for Gitmo Detainees.
    War captured are held for the duration of the war. This is how it has been throughout all of time. prove me wrong.



    How is holding war captured for the duration of a war not Libertarian? what did washington do with war catured?



    Defended wiretaps.
    of foreign nationals, sure. this is a war. on Americans, no way.

    Defended huge defense spending bills.
    The war needs to be paid for. but the rest of the spending that you left out? needs to be cut.


    Were anti-gay marriage (not because they thought that marriage should not even be dealt with in government at all, but rather they used the old slipperly slope argument), and basically held countless views that were "statist".
    The Government should be out of the marriage business.

    I have a lot of respect for libertarian ideas. Some I agree with. However I don't know a lot of actual real libertarians.

    Do you agree with 100% of Democrat ideals and policies?


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  6. #26
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Libertarian is a broad term. I take it you mean the American libertarian party kind of libertarian rather than a more broad kind that could include anyone from anarcho-communists, who incidentally invented the term, to classical liberals to Max Stirner.

    Personally I don't know. What I do object to is that one has to a complete individualist and a complete social libertine to be considered a libertarian. One who objects to legalised crack can still be a libertarian certainly in my opinion, a stable and decent society and a plurality of intermediate associations, like family and local community, to me are a must for a libertarian society. Libertarianism in my book implies a measure of mild conservatism, communitarian-individualism and pluralism.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-21-09 at 08:02 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #27
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Even tho the 2 main parties are so large, it would be far easier to define either of them than to even begin to come up with commonalities for libertarians. Maybe contrarian is a better term...
    Oracle of Utah
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  8. #28
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The actual solution is to abolish the marriage license. Most everything you can get through marriage can be handled with separate contract. Also, there should be no tax benefits for getting married. Hurray for you, you're married. But you're still using the same amount of stuff and public resources as you were before so you shouldn't have your tax burden reduced over that of single people. Also, the child credit of 3000 per child with no saturation should be done away with as well. Especially considering families with children on the whole use more public services than single people.

    Regardless, nix the marriage license and return it to the Church solely. I don't see why you need the government's permission to be married anyway. But if we keep it the way it is as a State issued and recognized contract, then there is no basis by which you can keep same sex couples out as contract is an inherent right.
    Three thousand!?!?! EFFING A! I only get one thousand per child.

    ****ing government screwing me out of four thousand dollars this year... grumble grumble grumble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  9. #29
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    dude everyone knows there are 5
    Damned right!

    He left ot Shewter's Libertarians: The ones who are obviously not fit for any of the other four categories!

    We went over this in another thread. I'm offended that he failed to mention my political offspring after the previous correction!

    NCFY!!! I am DONE sending you nudes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  10. #30
    Meh...
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    Re: What percentage of people that claim to be Libertarians are actual Libertarians?

    Kelzie tagged me as a "hawkish apathetic libertarian."

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