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Thread: Obama Compromises National Defense

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Because foreign policy is a giant chess match. It gives us tremendous leverage over both the Iranians and the increasingly abusive Russians to be able to neutralize their missile threat.
    Uhh
    So I guess I have to ask the obvious question...

    Why not just let the Europeans and Israelis gain tremendous leverage over the Iranians and Russians to be able to neutralize their missile threat? Since they're the ones affected by it, after all. Let THEM spend the billions of dollars on this boondoggle.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Indeed. If you are interested in stability, global security and domestic liberty it is an absurd idea to go for these liberal interventionist strategies.
    Just like it was absurd for us to intervene in Bosnia or Somalia, because we all know those pristine and undisturbed places have completely fallen to ashes since we "de-stabilized" them.

    Newsflash: Russia and Iran are the ones destabilizing the region. Us resisting their aggressions undoes the turmoil they create. Please, stop hyperventilating over angering aggressors...your approach has a long track record of embarrassing failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You arguments are liberal to the core. You are arguing for humanitarian interventionism to defeat regimes on ideological grounds when for the cause of stability or national interest is little served by it.
    Wrong. What is happening here is you are failing to comprehend what I am arguing. See my last post (chess match) for clarification.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  3. #13
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Uhh
    So I guess I have to ask the obvious question...

    Why not just let the Europeans and Israelis gain tremendous leverage over the Iranians and Russians to be able to neutralize their missile threat? Since they're the ones affected by it, after all. Let THEM spend the billions of dollars on this boondoggle.
    Spoken like a true pre-WWII visionless isolationist.

    Newsflash: we have a great deal at stake in the affairs of Europe, Israel and the entire Middle East...and as even a cursory review of world history will confirm, resisting the aggressions of a monster today will prevent far more costly interventions later.

    Good night all.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  4. #14
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Just like it was absurd for us to intervene in Bosnia or Somalia, because we all know those pristine and undisturbed places have completely fallen to ashes since we "de-stabilized" them.
    Unless there is likely to be something like a genocide then intervening is a silly liberal idea and yes it tends to increase destabilisation. The US and Ethopia recently overturned the Islamic courts in Somalia who for all their faults had something of a stable control over significant parts of the country and now it has gone back to almost complete chaos.

    Newsflash: Russia and Iran are the ones destabilizing the region. Us resisting their aggressions undoes the turmoil they create. Please, stop hyperventilating over angering aggressors...your approach has a long track record of embarrassing failure.
    This is Russia's region and Iran is doing precious little and is far away from either the US or UK. You are suggesting liberal interventionism for abstract ideological reasons and it will only lead to harm.


    Wrong. What is happening here is you are failing to comprehend what I am arguing. See my last post (chess match) for clarification.
    You argument is muddled and confused. You talk in a neo-realist fashion about chess-matchs and then seem to wish to intervene in another great powers backyard for ideological reasons, which is absurd from a realist position and will lead to obvious instability.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-18-09 at 10:23 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    The Russians are once again celebrating Democrat stupidity...

    The Right-Wing Underground: Obama Compromises National Defense

    So the question is, when Obama is finished subverting U.S. interests abroad and making us utterly beholden to the whims of foreign powers, will Democrats once again get away with falsely blaming Republicans for their own refusal to learn from history, as they did with 9/11, Iran, North Korea, etc?

    This partisan bull**** is never going to end... is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  6. #16
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Newsflash: we have a great deal at stake in the affairs of Europe, Israel and the entire Middle East.
    We certainly have less of a stake in the affairs of Europe, Israel, and the Middle East than Europe, Israel, and the Middle East do.

    Again, these are not poor countries who are completely dependent on us. They could build this thing if they wanted to. It's ridiculous to conclude that WE need this boondoggle for OUR national interests, when even the countries at risk aren't willing to pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub
    ..and as even a cursory review of world history will confirm, resisting the aggressions of a monster today will prevent far more costly interventions later.
    World history offers mixed reviews of that formula. See, not every single world leader whom you don't like is Adolf Hitler.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-18-09 at 10:24 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    The U.S still has its ballistic missile subs, and ICBMs so I really don't see the need for a missile shield to make the Russians behave.

    Russia is a paper tiger. End of. Europe can pay for its own defense strategy.....

    It amazes me that some conservatives are the first people to whinge about the size of government, but they don't seem to blink an eye when government spending is increased on useless defense policies. Then some conservatives bemoan Europe's attitude towards defence, that it is; the US is always bailing their ass. My point is this; how can you ever encourage Europe to look after its on affairs if it can easily pam it of to America? You don't change bad behavior by rewarding it.

    The US has the worlds most powerful aircraft carrier fleet. It has the most powerful army and marine corp in the world. It has the largest navy and air force in the world. It has the best equipment in the world, it has a massive nuclear arsenal. Eastern Europe does not need a military-corporate-welfare program to defend itself from Russian aggression.

    Unlike some symbolic hawks, I would rather governments engage in effective military deterrents that are necessary for collective or national defense. I do not believe that building the modern equivalents of rail guns, is necessary.

  8. #18
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Indeed. If you are interested in stability, global security and domestic liberty it is an absurd idea to go for these liberal interventionist strategies.


    You arguments are liberal to the core. You are arguing for humanitarian interventionism to defeat regimes on ideological grounds when for the cause of stability or national interest is little served by it.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/po...gewanted=print
    Bush says supports Russian shipment of enriched uranium to Iran - Haaretz - Israel News


    Bush Backs Russia on Iran Nuclear Issue
    U.S. agrees to EU's Iran nuclear plan - CNN.com




    Liberals are just full of ideology and righteousness disregarding any common sense, it does not matter if they are Bush or Obama voters. Unintentionally Obama may do something right, but it is not like Russia would celebrate stupidity of the US. Russia would celebrate any American politician and/or leader matching the intelligence of Russian leaders. There is no more joy for an intelligent person than to talk and deal with another intelligent person.
    Russia wants to see the US be smart and work together. It has no interest in nuclear Iran, the less it supports Muslim terrorism, actually it greatly opposes Muslim terrorism, - but in a smart way.

  9. #19
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    The Russians are once again celebrating Democrat stupidity...

    The Right-Wing Underground: Obama Compromises National Defense

    So the question is, when Obama is finished subverting U.S. interests abroad and making us utterly beholden to the whims of foreign powers, will Democrats once again get away with falsely blaming Republicans for their own refusal to learn from history, as they did with 9/11, Iran, North Korea, etc?
    This piece of **** blog AGAIN?

    Please tell me how this missile defense system, in the czech republic will change the way Russia runs it's ship, or how it will show anybody that we are not vulnerable...
    I think most of this ideal of invincibility was hindered whenever a few Arabians, armed with box cutters, made the "breaking news" spot on CNN.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  10. #20
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    Re: Obama Compromises National Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    The Russians are once again celebrating Democrat stupidity...

    The Right-Wing Underground: Obama Compromises National Defense

    So the question is, when Obama is finished subverting U.S. interests abroad and making us utterly beholden to the whims of foreign powers, will Democrats once again get away with falsely blaming Republicans for their own refusal to learn from history, as they did with 9/11, Iran, North Korea, etc?
    For those who are against this claim, it is impossible to answer this poll.

    But to answer your question, the Republicans are quite capable of screwing themselves up.


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