View Poll Results: Do you think downloading movies and other content should be illegal?

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    14 25.93%
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    33 61.11%
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Thread: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Who says? The owner of the car decides this. They don;t have to show you squat. Car dealerships PERMIT you to test drive, its not a right.

    So?

    No they PERMIT you. No one HAS to let you.
    With all that said I just won't buy it then.

    I never thought it was a right either. The movies I view are to see if I will buy it or not. Its a nice game the movie industry has going on.

    Once you see the movie you can't get your money back if it sucks and if you buy the dvd you can't get your money back either.
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Yes, we do. Its called intellectual property and copyright. Another similar area is trademarks.
    Yes, they are called government-granted monopolies and privileges on information that stifle human advancement. A hold-over from antiquated mercantilist ideology totally inimical to freedom that is long past its due.

    Only if you failed to understand the analogy.
    There was no analogy. There is no parallel between stealing real property and "stealing" information.

  3. #53
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Your analogy is flawed - stealing a boxed copy of window deprives the store owner of the physical item and the potential sale. Copying the OS only has the potential - the odds unpredictable IMO - to tarnish potential sales. That is why the law looks at the two matters differently.
    If you steal a copy of windows from the store its no different than stealing it from the producing company. Just because, for example, Best Buy loses money as opposed to Microsoft matters not, its still stealing a product that would otherwise be sold. Its copyright infringement if you copy it and its illegal to possess goods which are in violation of copyright law.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Software should not be copyrighted. Only patented.
    Well your opinion is well noted by the courts and rejected.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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  5. #55
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Well your opinion is well noted by the courts and rejected.
    Falsely so. How can it be considered copyright?

    If I make a machine with cogs and gears with letters on it can it then be considered a copyrightable device?
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  6. #56
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    If you steal a copy of windows from the store its no different than stealing it from the producing company. Just because, for example, Best Buy loses money as opposed to Microsoft matters not, its still stealing a product that would otherwise be sold. Its copyright infringement if you copy it and its illegal to possess goods which are in violation of copyright law.
    Private property in the common law sense is for scarce objects, intellectual property is not. It is a state monopoly. What you seem to be saying is that because the state calls it property then it must be just or legitimate private property.

    On the other hand I can see some of the point in intellectual property rights, at least for a time, but they should be more limited.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 02-16-09 at 01:14 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    Yes, they are called government-granted monopolies and privileges on information that stifle human advancement.
    WRONG. All patented items must have a full description of how to use and make the item and that description is in the public domain. There is nothing secret about them. Patents actually contribute to the proliferation of knowledge.

    But this isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about COPYRIGHTS, not PATENTS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    A hold-over from antiquated mercantilist ideology totally inimical to freedom that is long past its due.
    Only if you don't understand what a patent or a copyright is, yes.

    In this country we believe in private property and defending the rights of inventors to protect their intellectual property is the bread and butter of our society. Without intellectual property inventors works would be gobbled up copiers with greater funds and power. Intellectual property protects the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    There was no analogy. There is no parallel between stealing real property and "stealing" information.
    You aren't stealing information. You are stealing a product. This is but a petty attempt at justification for you.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #58
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Falsely so. How can it be considered copyright?

    If I make a machine with cogs and gears with letters on it can it then be considered a copyrightable device?
    You patent devices. You copyright works. This is fundamental misunderstanding on your part.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #59
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Private property in the common law sense is for scarce objects, intellectual property is not. It is a state monopoly.
    I agree. but people shouldn't be turned off just because they hear the word "monopoly". In this case its a good thing. Such a monopoly is sharply limited to certain time frame and is very narrow in its constraints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What you seem to be saying is that because the state calls it property then it must be just or legitimate private property.
    All I'm trying to say is that patents and copyrights exist and for good reason. The positive consequences far outweigh the consequences of not having them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    On the other hand I can see some of the point in intellectual property rights, at least for a time, but they should be more limited.
    Care to elaborate on what should be limited?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #60
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    If you steal a copy of windows from the store its no different than stealing it from the producing company. Just because, for example, Best Buy loses money as opposed to Microsoft matters not, its still stealing a product that would otherwise be sold.
    Using your logic, am I "stealing" money (that might not even go to a company in the first place) if I eat at McDonalds instead of Burger King?

    Again our analogy misses two things:

    1) what is "stealing" and HOW is it stealing You can't throw the term around without these parameters IMO.

    @) You are comparing copying bits and stealing hard physical media or product. This is not something that I am alone in believing that is different. Why is it that dealing with pirating software doesn't deal with the same body of law as shoplifting? They are the sam after all.
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