View Poll Results: Do you think downloading movies and other content should be illegal?

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  • Yes

    14 25.93%
  • No

    33 61.11%
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    2 3.70%
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Thread: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

  1. #221
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I never said I supported anyone stealing anything.

    As the engine is changed a new patent issued for the modified engine because it is not exactly the same as the original.



    I know that. What I am saying is that someone can take that engine and reverse engineer it and modify it.

    The engine still retains original features that it started with but has added modifications to which a new patent is issued.


    ....
    You don't have a clue about patent law. You may want to read up on it some. You are making yourself look rather silly with your statements about getting a new patent by making a minor modification.

  2. #222
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    It is to communists.
    Thanks, Captain Obvious.


  3. #223
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You don't have a clue about patent law. You may want to read up on it some. You are making yourself look rather silly with your statements about getting a new patent by making a minor modification.
    Don't be a troll and add something substantial or refute my argument.

    I'm being civil but I can change my tone to suit you if you want.
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  4. #224
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    "Efficiently produce"? So you're saying the market should "reward" the cheapskate freeloader who didn't put in the money, time, talent, and resources necessary to create worthwhile content and instead leeches off the people who ARE willing to do the work? Of course the cheapskate freeloader can do it cheaper; your entire investment is twenty bucks and five minutes. Man, you really put in the work. You deserve that reward.
    Funny, I think an individual would have put in quite a substantial amount of money, time, talent, and resources if he were somehow able to compete with a major corporate record label.

    So, under your construct, why should anyone bother?
    Have to put food on the table, don't you? Of course the artificially inflated amounts of money which labels and 'artists' get today would be reduced by the loss of monopoly.


    Do you have another law in mind? God's law, maybe? Or "natural law," under which you're entitled to your private property only as long as you're able to physically defend it from someone trying to take it from you?
    God's law, natural law, whatever you wish to call it. It is the only absolute law.

    As I said, you can sell, lend, bury, burn, or do anything physical to the physical object you bought. But if you make a copy, you are creating something separate from that physical object, something which you were not given the right to do under the sales contract.

    Also as I said, if the right to copy is in the sales contract, point out where. Show it to me.
    So you are admitting that IP gives another entity arbitrary veto power over what I can do with my own property?

    See, you're getting there.

    The physical CD, sure. Not the content recorded on it. Sales contract.
    "Sale" implies transfer of ownership. If its my property I can do with it as I wish. Otherwise, as I said, they should not misrepresent it as a sale but as a rental.


    And you're the parasite looking to profit from the work and talent of others.
    Really spending my hard-earned money on a CD and taking the time and effort to share my new property with others is "parasitic?"


    (You're also a typical adolescent who thinks anarchy is a nifty idea. But you're hardly alone. Most tend to grow up, though.)
    Of course anarchy is the theoretical ideal, just like curing cancer is the ideal for a medical researcher.

    Substitute "socialism" for "anarchy" and I think we have a pretty accurate picture of you here. But if I'm an adolescent, what does that make you? An infant?

    As I say, the Constitution and a large body of law say you're wrong.

    If there's another code which says what your rights are and aren't, specify. Point to it. Show it to me.
    More appeals to authority.

  5. #225
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Don't be a troll and add something substantial or refute my argument.

    I'm being civil but I can change my tone to suit you if you want.
    If you think telling someone they don't know what they are talking about when they don't know what they are talking about is trolling, all I can say is... oh well.

    Be civil or uncivil, I don't care, but you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

  6. #226
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    If you think telling someone they don't know what they are talking about when they don't know what they are talking about is trolling, all I can say is... oh well.

    Be civil or uncivil, I don't care, but you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
    Lets review what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You don't have a clue about patent law.
    A statement without proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You are making yourself look rather silly with your statements about getting a new patent by making a minor modification.
    Another statement outside of what I said or proof again.

    Address what I said with informed opinion or facts instead of just making drive by pot shots.

    Please continue on with your "troll lite". I'll either be a complete ass or just ignore you.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    Funny, I think an individual would have put in quite a substantial amount of money, time, talent, and resources if he were somehow able to compete with a major corporate record label.
    No, you don't have beat them simply to profit off someone else's work. Face it. You're a leech. A parasite.


    Have to put food on the table, don't you? Of course the artificially inflated amounts of money which labels and 'artists' get today would be reduced by the loss of monopoly.
    See, you're simply showing your contempt here.

    And demonstrate, please, which you have never done, exactly HOW, if I write and record a song, I've "monopolized" the creation and sales of music?

    Show it.


    God's law, natural law, whatever you wish to call it. It is the only absolute law.
    Show me passages on property rights and how intellectual property is excluded. Also, show me the enforcement division.


    So you are admitting that IP gives another entity arbitrary veto power over what I can do with my own property?
    No. I'm saying that what you THINK is "your property" isn't. You can scream all day that it is; it won't make it so.


    "Sale" implies transfer of ownership. If its my property I can do with it as I wish. Otherwise, as I said, they should not misrepresent it as a sale but as a rental.
    You don't actually know that much about property, even the Western concept of it, do you?

    I think you should look up the term "fee simple determinable."

    A "sale" entails exactly what is in the sales contract.


    Really spending my hard-earned money on a CD and taking the time and effort to share my new property with others is "parasitic?"
    Yes. Except it's not your property.


    Of course anarchy is the theoretical ideal, just like curing cancer is the ideal for a medical researcher.
    There's nothing ideal about anarchy. Under it, your "rights" are defined exactly by the extent to which you or your faction are able to withstand assault from another faction. There is no higher authority than brute force.

    (It's typically the realization of that point where the mature mind abandons the idea of anarchy.)


    Substitute "socialism" for "anarchy" and I think we have a pretty accurate picture of you here. But if I'm an adolescent, what does that make you? An infant?
    There's nothing "socialist" about intellectual property in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it's YOU who argue that intellectual property is public property, so that makes YOU the socialist.


    More appeals to authority.
    As I said, only appeals to false authority are invalid. But you appeal to "nature" or "God" as your authority.

    So, show me the clauses of God's or nature's law which show you to be correct. Let's see it.
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  8. #228
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    On the surface I do and do not support it.

    For music you can sample the product before you buy it

    Movies I do agree with pirating in a limited aspect. I will download a movie to see if I like it or not. I won't keep it or burn it to a disk.

    If I like it I will buy it then.

    I'm not happy at all with length of copyrights though.

    MLK's papers and speeches were copyrighted and since it has run out the King family has decided that the physical papers are not important and they have sold them.

    That is more of a moral issue though.
    Not sure what this has to do with illegally downloading and the fact that regardless of whether or not you 'keep' the movie you're still breaking and encouraging the breaking of distribution laws.

    I'm talking about creating an entirely new addition to an original design.

    An original design to an original design.
    You mean like windshield wipers? I remember hearing there was a movie recently about this. The guy who apparently created it felt he was cheated out of his fair share of the money and to some extent I agree. If you've created something and have gotten the original creator's go ahead to add to his creation then it's fine. You should be paid for your work. But if you're just adding your own creation, making a profit and not caring about getting the rights/permission from the original design's creator then tough cookies and see you in court.

    Yea but the plug in is an original design. It is an entirely new addition to adobe and they shouldn't have to pay anyone to create it.
    Irrelevant. Something being 'original' does not mean it gets allowed to use the trademark, copyright, patents etc. of another design. Specially if those designers want to make a profit from a plug in which uses Adobe programs then they should pay for making money through Adobe's work.

    I need to read up on distribution rights more before I can respond.

    But let me ask you this. Why are genetically modified plants patented instead of copyrighted?
    Because they are true inventions. Software, movies and music are not 'true' inventions as they are written down. For you to be awarded a patent you do not actually have a working model of is silly. Software is created through writing(programming), so is Music(lyrics, song structure - notes etc. all written) and movies(scripts). I guess the best way to explain this is that patents are awarded to inventions which have been proven to work. While copyright is reserved for that which is written.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-17-09 at 12:46 PM.
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  9. #229
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    I'm with Hatuey on this one. There is no way downloading music should be legal.

    But I'm willing to admit I am a hypocrite and pirate the stuff anyway.
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  10. #230
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Not sure what this has to do with illegally downloading and the fact that regardless of whether or not you 'keep' the movie you're still breaking and encouraging the breaking of distribution laws.
    I'd ask you then, would you buy a piece of art without looking at it, a cd without know what type of music it was.

    Why would you buy a movie without viewing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You mean like windshield wipers? I remember hearing there was a movie recently about this. The guy who apparently created it felt he was cheated out of his fair share of the money and to some extent I agree. If you've created something and have gotten the original creator's go ahead to add to his creation then it's fine. You should be paid for your work. But if you're just adding your own creation, making a profit and not caring about getting the rights/permission from the original design's creator then tough cookies and see you in court.
    Thats not really what I was talking about.

    Lets say I get a mustang and inspect the engine. There are area's to the engine where I could modify its design to increase performance, fuel economy or whatever.

    I modify the engine(physically) and am happy with the results. Should I then be able to sell it even though the original design is under my modifications?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Irrelevant. Something being 'original' does not mean it gets allowed to use the trademark, copyright, patents etc. of another design. Specially if those designers want to make a profit from a plug in which uses Adobe programs then they should pay for making money through Adobe's work.
    I know it can't use the original trademark.

    What I'm saying is that. I purchase a copy of photoshop and find that there are many features that it is lacking. I reprogram it to include those features and sell it under a different name with my new features adapted to the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Because they are true inventions. Software, movies and music are not 'true' inventions as they are written down. For you to be awarded a patent you have to actually have a working model of is silly. Software is created through writing(programming), so is Music(lyrics, song structure - notes etc. all written) and movies(scripts). I guess the best way to explain this is that patents are awarded to inventions which have been proven to work. While copyright is reserved for that which is written.
    Software is also an invention. It is a virtual non physical invention. Just because a program is in written form doesn't mean it isn't mechanical in design.

    With GM plants they reprogram the original plant to produce a new desired result. It is biological software.
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