View Poll Results: Do you think downloading movies and other content should be illegal?

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  • Yes

    14 25.93%
  • No

    33 61.11%
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    2 3.70%
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    5 9.26%
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Thread: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

  1. #211
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Are you suggesting patents should run 80 years or more?
    What I'm saying is that Ford has never owned the patent or sole rights to the production of cars. Not ever. They do however own the production rights to the car models which they design. Where he got the idea that Ford has EVER owned the right to the production of cars is beyond me. That's like getting the production rights to books. Or chairs. And where you got that I said patents should run for 80 years or more is beyond me. You guys simply don't understand the debate at hand and are pretty much making it up as you go.

    When you purchase a CD with content in it. You do not purchase the distribution rights to the content within that CD. The only thing you are purchasing(other then the content) is the right to use that CD for the usage intended by the creator. This is made CLEAR from the moment you buy a DVD, Music CD, Software etc in many different ways from labels on the media to inside labels(black labels on that pop up when you start a DVD).
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #212
    Student Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Should Ford have exclusive rights to making cars forever?

    If you make something and release it, you have a limited time under patent laws where it is just yours after that expires it is open season.
    That's a patent law, and rightfully so or Ford would still be the only ones making cars - and probably China since they ignore accepted business practices and do whatever the hell they want.

    Copyright law are different and they extend the legal rights to intellectual property for a much longer period of time.

    These two that are arguing this issue look like a bunch of freeloading college kids. And when I suggest they're college kids, it's because they know of certain topics that sound sexy, know of them but don't understand them well enough to use them as a basis for an argument.

    So when you boil it down, these guys are just looking to justify a free ride. Throw a couple of things they saw somewhere once in to make it look legit.
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  3. #213
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensor View Post
    If another is able to more efficiently produce and market a product, then the original developer deserves to lose market share. That's how markets work. Reward success, punish failure.
    "Efficiently produce"? So you're saying the market should "reward" the cheapskate freeloader who didn't put in the money, time, talent, and resources necessary to create worthwhile content and instead leeches off the people who ARE willing to do the work? Of course the cheapskate freeloader can do it cheaper; your entire investment is twenty bucks and five minutes. Man, you really put in the work. You deserve that reward.

    So, under your construct, why should anyone bother?


    As in what law? The government's law?
    Do you have another law in mind? God's law, maybe? Or "natural law," under which you're entitled to your private property only as long as you're able to physically defend it from someone trying to take it from you?


    I just explained this a few pages ago.
    No, you didn't.

    If I own a CD with songs that I purchased, and I choose to copy it onto a disc that I own using a computer that I own and then share that copy in a private voluntary exchange, I am exercising my private property rights. What the fraud that is "intellectual property" does is allow others to dictate to me what I can do with my own property. The very concept of IP is anathema to property rights.
    As I said, you can sell, lend, bury, burn, or do anything physical to the physical object you bought. But if you make a copy, you are creating something separate from that physical object, something which you were not given the right to do under the sales contract.

    Also as I said, if the right to copy is in the sales contract, point out where. Show it to me.


    But I own the CD as much as the original producer did before he sold it to me.
    The physical CD, sure. Not the content recorded on it. Sales contract.


    The state is inherently wrong since it is a parasitic entity that eats away at freedom.
    And you're the parasite looking to profit from the work and talent of others.

    (You're also a typical adolescent who thinks anarchy is a nifty idea. But you're hardly alone. Most tend to grow up, though.)


    That is not the issue.
    Oh, no, it really is.

    The issue is whether property rights exist in this case in the first place. In the case of IP, they do not, thus it is not a legitimate justification for the use of force.
    As I say, the Constitution and a large body of law say you're wrong.

    If there's another code which says what your rights are and aren't, specify. Point to it. Show it to me.
    2001-2008: Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Wow. Do you have ANY clue as to what you're talking about at all? Seriously. Do any of you here trying to support your theft of other people's work? Patents for different types of internal combustion engines have been granted over and over again in the last 150 years.
    I never said I supported anyone stealing anything.

    As the engine is changed a new patent issued for the modified engine because it is not exactly the same as the original.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The originals owners of these patents willingly allowed their work to be theirs for 20 years(or whatever time period their countries allowed 5-10-15 years). NONE what so ever allowed for their work to not be patented and freely used by whomever came along and decided to work on it.
    I know that. What I am saying is that someone can take that engine and reverse engineer it and modify it.

    The engine still retains original features that it started with but has added modifications to which a new patent is issued.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Jesus H. Christ. You can read about plug-ins. Companies pay so that Adobe will allow them to create extra content for Photoshop and then so that they can sell it and make a profit from it :

    Example :

    onOne Software - Award Winning Plugins for Adobe Photoshop
    And doesn't that sound a bit screwed up.

    They pay adobe so that they can create their own original work to put into adobe. Wouldn't having to pay adobe so that these people can create their own intellectual property be backwards.

    Sounds like they modified the engine to which a new patent would be issued.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    - You seem to not be able to understand that this doesn't matter. Mercedez can't decide to start selling Mustangs because the patent for Mustangs runs out. It can't even grab 30 year old Mustangs and stick it's own logo on it and call it an Arabian. Why? Because Mustangs are the property of Ford. Cars have never been the property of Ford.

    They can do that. They can make a copy of it and all they have to do is call it something else because the name is trademarked.

    It happens all the time with scooters and the gy6 engine design.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #215
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    That's a patent law, and rightfully so or Ford would still be the only ones making cars - and probably China since they ignore accepted business practices and do whatever the hell they want.

    Copyright law are different and they extend the legal rights to intellectual property for a much longer period of time.

    These two that are arguing this issue look like a bunch of freeloading college kids. And when I suggest they're college kids, it's because they know of certain topics that sound sexy, know of them but don't understand them well enough to use them as a basis for an argument.

    So when you boil it down, these guys are just looking to justify a free ride. Throw a couple of things they saw somewhere once in to make it look legit.
    I know the difference.

    I'm arguing that software is wrongfully put under copyright when it should be under patents.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #216
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I never said I supported anyone stealing anything.
    So you don't support illegal downloading/pirating etc? Good to know we're on the same side.

    As the engine is changed a new patent issued for the modified engine because it is not exactly the same as the original.

    I know that. What I am saying is that someone can take that engine and reverse engineer it and modify it.

    The engine still retains original features that it started with but has added modifications to which a new patent is issued.
    You're still fighting windmills here's how you get a patent :

    Patent, How to Get a

    Utility patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, article of manufacture, or compositions of matters, or any new useful improvement thereof.
    The operating word here is new. A patent isn't issued because you moved a few things you didn't like around.

    [QUOTE]And doesn't that sound a bit screwed up.[quote]

    No.

    They pay adobe so that they can create their own original work to put into adobe. Wouldn't having to pay adobe so that these people can create their own intellectual property be backwards.

    Sounds like they modified the engine to which a new patent would be issued.

    They don't pay Adobe so they can create their own work. They pay adobe so that they can make a profit from their work.
    There are tons of plug-ins out there that are free to download.

    They can do that. They can make a copy of it and all they have to do is call it something else because the name is trademarked.

    It happens all the time with scooters and the gy6 engine design.
    No. They. Can. Not. Simply because this violates distribution rights. See the hundreds of lawsuits filed because people decided to sell stuff they never had the patent to sell and/or the distribution rights to sell.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #217
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Begin losing a debate? Kid you argued you paid money for ink and paper in a book and not the book itself. If that doesn't spell the fact that you had not argument then I don't know what does. Cry me a river about how you don't think it's fair to use to your own words to demolish your arguments.
    Perhaps if your little non-argument here make una iota of sense. Unfortunately for you, it does not.

  8. #218
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    My reasoning is simple. All the 3 industries have failed to keep up with the movement of technology. Why should I have to wait weeks and months if not years to see the next episode of my favourite tv show or new movie?
    Simple. You dont have the right to see that movie or TV show w/o agreeing to compensate the copyright holder (should he want to be compensated).

    This is because of "rights", an archaic method to exploit more money out of people world wide.
    The concept of property rights is archaic?

  9. #219
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Simple. You dont have the right to see that movie or TV show w/o agreeing to compensate the copyright holder (should he want to be compensated).


    The concept of property rights is archaic?
    It is to communists.
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  10. #220
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So you don't support illegal downloading/pirating etc? Good to know we're on the same side.
    On the surface I do and do not support it.

    For music you can sample the product before you buy it

    Movies I do agree with pirating in a limited aspect. I will download a movie to see if I like it or not. I won't keep it or burn it to a disk.

    If I like it I will buy it then.

    I'm not happy at all with length of copyrights though.

    MLK's papers and speeches were copyrighted and since it has run out the King family has decided that the physical papers are not important and they have sold them.

    That is more of a moral issue though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're still fighting windmills here's how you get a patent :

    Patent, How to Get a



    The operating word here is new. A patent isn't issued because you moved a few things you didn't like around.
    I'm talking about creating an entirely new addition to an original design.

    An original design to an original design.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    They don't pay Adobe so they can create their own work. They pay adobe so that they can make a profit from their work.
    There are tons of plug-ins out there that are free to download.
    Yea but the plug in is an original design. It is an entirely new addition to adobe and they shouldn't have to pay anyone to create it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. They. Can. Not. Simply because this violates distribution rights. See the hundreds of lawsuits filed because people decided to sell stuff they never had the patent to sell and/or the distribution rights to sell.
    I need to read up on distribution rights more before I can respond.

    But let me ask you this. Why are genetically modified plants patented instead of copyrighted?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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