View Poll Results: Do you think downloading movies and other content should be illegal?

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  • Yes

    14 25.93%
  • No

    33 61.11%
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    2 3.70%
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Thread: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

  1. #191
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Again - There is no goalposts at all. You claim that you pay for ink and paper. You're not. Just like you're not paying for a CD but the content on that CD. Arguing that this is somehow 'moving' the goal posts is ridiculous.
    Hatuey, stop wasting my time with this nonsense. If the books are available free online, its pretty damn obvious what you are paying for when you purchase a print copy.

    I never said that that applied generally since obviously most works aren't made available free by the authors.

    Again this is an example of straw man; I'm glad you looked it up so you can avoid doing this again in the future.

  2. #192
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This would bring in serious legal issues. A patent is given to an inventor and it is limited to a period of time. Why would this bring legal issues? Well Software isn't usually created by just one person. I'll use the one piece of software I have the most knowledge of. Photoshop. Adobe has different teams working on different aspects of it's flagship project. People working on filters, processes, brushes etc. All these teams work under the guidance of a sort of 'director' who then has another team make all these components work together under the same program. If patents were an effective method of protecting software then legal issues would arise as to whether it is the actual creators of the components who have ownership of the components or Adobe.
    Inventors create stuff all the time. Machines are created by corporations and groups of individuals all the time.

    Me thinks the software companies lobbied to get their works copyrighted instead of patented as it should have been.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    Examples :



    Notice how the DVD says 'Do Not Make Illegal Copies of this Disk?'



    Notice how before a legally made copy of DVD starts a black screen telling you that it is illegal to make copies of such DVD?
    Because they have no concept of fair use maybe?

    That's not a binding contract, like an EULA (well, what isn't unchallenged anyways) - this also convinently ignores that while making copies to distribute is illegal, making copies in of itself - backup and timeshifting only - is fair use and actually legal.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

  4. #194
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Inventors create stuff all the time. Machines are created by corporations and groups of individuals all the time.

    Me thinks the software companies lobbied to get their works copyrighted instead of patented as it should have been.
    And for the most part a lot of these inventors sign away their rights when they're hired. Also like I said a patent is limited by time :

    General Information Concerning Patents

    A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. U.S. patent grants are effective only within the United States, U.S. territories, and U.S. possessions. Under certain circumstances, patent term extensions or adjustments may be available.

    The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention. Once a patent is issued, the patentee must enforce the patent without aid of the USPTO.
    What company is going to allow their work to be theirs for 20 years?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #195
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And for the most part a lot of these inventors sign away their rights when they're hired. Also like I said a patent is limited by time :

    General Information Concerning Patents

    What company is going to allow their work to be theirs for 20 years?
    To be honest it shouldn't be their choice, considering that they shouldn't have a monopoly on it.

    It is like a machine in every way except it is virtual.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #196
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Because they have no concept of fair use maybe?

    That's not a binding contract, like an EULA (well, what isn't unchallenged anyways) - this also convinently ignores that while making copies to distribute is illegal, making copies in of itself - backup and timeshifting only - is fair use and actually legal.
    What ignorance. It doesn't conveniently ignore anything. Learn what fair use actually is before you start throwing it around :

    U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 1

    Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

    (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

    (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

    (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;

    (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;

    (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and

    (6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.
    U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 1

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
    So 'fair use' depends on whether you've LEGALLY obtained the copy of the product. If you haven't then your claim to 'fair use' is bull**** for the most part. Not to mention distribution is clearly the sole right of the actual owner of the copyright. Not those who've purchased copies of it.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-17-09 at 01:38 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #197
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    To be honest it shouldn't be their choice, considering that they shouldn't have a monopoly on it.

    It is like a machine in every way except it is virtual.
    Companies shouldn't have a right to own that which they create? Are you even being serious?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #198
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Companies shouldn't have a right to own that which they create? Are you even being serious?
    Should Ford have exclusive rights to making cars forever?

    If you make something and release it, you have a limited time under patent laws where it is just yours after that expires it is open season.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #199
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Should Ford have exclusive rights to making cars forever?

    If you make something and release it, you have a limited time under patent laws where it is just yours after that expires it is open season.
    Good lord are you really this uninformed?

    Automobile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Although several other German engineers (including Gottlieb Daimler, Wilhelm Maybach, and Siegfried Marcus) were working on the problem at about the same time, Karl Benz generally is acknowledged as the inventor of the modern automobile.[8]

    An automobile powered by his own four-stroke cycle gasoline engine was built in Mannheim, Germany by Karl Benz in 1885 and granted a patent in January of the following year under the auspices of his major company, Benz & Cie., which was founded in 1883. It was an integral design, without the adaptation of other existing components and including several new technological elements to create a new concept. This is what made it worthy of a patent. He began to sell his production vehicles in 1888.

    An automobile powered by his own four-stroke cycle gasoline engine was built in Mannheim, Germany by Karl Benz in 1885 and granted a patent in January of the following year under the auspices of his major company, Benz & Cie., which was founded in 1883.
    It was an integral design, without the adaptation of other existing components and including several new technological elements to create a new concept. This is what made it worthy of a patent. He began to sell his production vehicles in 1888.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_A_(1903)

    The original Ford Model A was the first car produced by Ford Motor Company, beginning production in 1903. Dr. Ernst Pfenning of Chicago, Illinois became the first owner of a Model A on July 23, 1903. 1,750 cars were made from 1903 through 1904. The Model A was replaced by the Ford Model C during 1904 with some sales overlap.
    But aside from the historical inaccuracies let's see here. Ford doesn't and has NEVER had ownership of the patent for 'cars'. It owns the rights to the Model A. It owns the right to the Model T. It owns the right to Mustangs, it owns the rights to even F350s. Does Ford own the exclusive rights to making cars? No. And it never has. It does however have the exclusive rights to all the cars it designs and produces.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #200
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    Re: Do you think downloading movies or other content should be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So 'fair use' depends on whether you've LEGALLY obtained the copy of the product. \
    And you talked to me about ignorance?

    Where did I suggest otherwise? I know damn well what fair use is, you are judging and assuming what I do and don't know wihout knowing a ****ing thing.

    Timeshifting and archival backup is legal. They don't include that exception. That, IMO, is omission.

    Take your own advice.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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