View Poll Results: 2-part question. See OP. Please explain your answer.

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • No - No

    15 83.33%
  • No - Yes

    0 0%
  • Yes - No

    0 0%
  • Yes - Yes

    3 16.67%
Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 136

Thread: If you are fighting...

  1. #61
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:08 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,370

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    One question, and it is highly pertinent:

    Are the people fighting being prevented from self-determination by the current regime? i.e. Are they not given a vote/voice in the current government?
    Not sure how that matters?
    The system they want to install is murderous and oppressive; these things on their own create an antithesis to freedom.
    There are lots of problems with your premise Goobieman but until the system is installed and proven to be murderous and oppressive - we're making assumptions. Anyhow - I'm going with Tucker Case on this - if the people fighting or using terror as a tactic are prevented from self determination - which includes the right to choose whatever form of govt they want or have any say in the choice of or vote in the Govt they are fighting for their freedom to make those choices.

    You're trying to put our moral disgust or reprehension of all things Islam on a question that is beyond Islam and partisan politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The only people who use the "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" line are Eurotrash and anti-american scum.
    Here's a case in point. Suddenly you are "Eurotrash" or "anti-American scum" if you disagree with jamesrage. Pretty convincing argument by the above poster by the way.

  2. #62
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 01:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    As noted eslewhere, there's no direct link between the entities.
    Your correlation here is unsound.
    Indeed, no direct link except that it was the same people* doing the same thing in the same place

    (*OBL anyone?)

    Oh look at that, it's funny what you can find on internet:

    The main base station of mujahideen in Pakistan was the town Badaber, 24 km from Peshawar. Afghanistan mujahideen were trained in the Badaber base under supervision by military instructors from the U.S.A., Pakistan, and the Republic of China .The base served as the concentration camp for Soviet and DRA captives as well. In 1985, the uprising of captives destroyed the base, but the incident was concealed by Pakistani and Soviet governments until the dissolution of the USSR.

    Ronald Reagan praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters", and four mainstream Western films, the 1987 James Bond film The Living Daylights, the 1988 action films Rambo III, The Beast and the 2007 biographical movie Charlie Wilson's War, portrayed them as heroic.
    Under direct instructions from Director of Central Intelligence William Casey, the CIA initiated programs for training Afghans in techniques such as car bombs and assassinations and in engaging in cross-border raids into the USSR
    Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #63
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Indeed, no direct link except that it was the same people* doing the same thing in the same place
    Look... if you cannot get past the fact that the Taliban is not the descendant of the Mujahadeen, there's no sense in continuing the conversation.

  4. #64
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 01:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Look... if you cannot get past the fact that the Taliban is not the descendant of the Mujahadeen, there's no sense in continuing the conversation.
    what's the difference between

    1) islamists fighting in afghanistan in 1985*
    2) islamists fighting in afghanistan in 2005**

    (* A Mujahid (Arabic: مجاهد, muǧāhid, literally "struggler") is a Muslim involved in a jihad, who is fighting in a war )
    Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    (** Taliban (Pashto: طالبان ṭālibān, also anglicised as Taleban; translation: "students") is a Sunni Islamist)

    The Talibans are a sort of Mujahideen.

    oh and look at that one, that's from Reagan


    To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom. Their courage teaches us a great lesson -- that there are things in this world worth defending.

    To the Afghan people, I say on behalf of all Americans that we admire your heroism, your devotion to freedom, and your relentless struggle against your oppressors.
    http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archive...983/32183e.htm

  5. #65
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    what's the difference between
    Let me know when you've finally admitted to yourself that you're wrong.

  6. #66
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 01:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Let me know when you've finally admitted to yourself that you're wrong.
    Look, it was funny to defeat you about
    - the "german resistance after WWII"
    - the freedom fighters

    but now it gets a bit repetitive, especially because you never admit when you're wrong. Instead you just skip the arguments that defeat you and focus on something unimportant: even if it was not the same people, there would still be no difference and you would still be defeated again.
    Last edited by bub; 02-11-09 at 11:18 AM.

  7. #67
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:08 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,370

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    --The Talibans are a sort of Mujahideen --
    Bub, I'm sorry but that's about as close as the history shows. They are two different groups - you could even say the Taleban defeated the Mujahideen. While you are right the mujahideen of the 80's were praised by Reagan and Osama Bin Laden was a US ally the group that became the "Taleban" is very different as far as I can recall.

    You'll find that the "mujahideen" are different in most parts of the world but the Taleban can (I think) only loosely be called a version of the mujahideen that took on the Soviets.

  8. #68
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Look, it was funny to defeat you about...
    Dream on pally. You haven't been right about any of those things.
    You know it, you just dont have the intellectual honesty to admit it.

    See, what you refuse to understand is:
    1: Its doesnt matter who calls someone a freedom fighter, if they aren't
    2: Freedom fighters can use terrorism and stll be freedom fighters
    3: The Taliban is NOT the descendant of the Mujahadeen; the groups fought for entirely different reasons.

    So, since you seem to think that font size and color count more toard the validity of a point than being factually correct, I will say again:

    Let me know when you've finally admitted to yourself that you're wrong.

  9. #69
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 01:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Bub, I'm sorry but that's about as close as the history shows. They are two different groups - you could even say the Taleban defeated the Mujahideen. While you are right the mujahideen of the 80's were praised by Reagan and Osama Bin Laden was a US ally the group that became the "Taleban" is very different as far as I can recall.

    You'll find that the "mujahideen" are different in most parts of the world but the Taleban can (I think) only loosely be called a version of the mujahideen that took on the Soviets.
    "Mujahideen" is a word reffering to any Islamist fighter: you find "mujahideens" in Chechnya etc...it just means "someone who takes part in the Jihad"

    "Taliban" are also Islamist fighters, so they are also "Mujahideens". They fought against other islamists, but they are also islamists, and some of them fought against both the USSR and the USA, like Bin Laden.

    It's like "soldiers" and "US soldiers": US soldiers fought against (german) soldiers during the WWII, but they are still soldiers

  10. #70
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: If you are fighting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Bub, I'm sorry but that's about as close as the history shows. They are two different groups - you could even say the Taleban defeated the Mujahideen. While you are right the mujahideen of the 80's were praised by Reagan and Osama Bin Laden was a US ally the group that became the "Taleban" is very different as far as I can recall.

    You'll find that the "mujahideen" are different in most parts of the world but the Taleban can (I think) only loosely be called a version of the mujahideen that took on the Soviets.
    This is the SECOND time you've told him this.
    His ignorance on this point is clearly willfull.

Page 7 of 14 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •