View Poll Results: Do you agree with the statement?

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Thread: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

  1. #211
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    It depends on the cause of what you are fighting for. I know some people who try to compare terrorists to Americans in the Revolutionary war and I think that is absurd. Americans were fighting for freedom from tyranny. Muslim fascists are fighting to establish a theocracy of enslavement. That is not a "freedom fighter" in my opinion. I think it all comes down to the cause of your fight.
    This -should- be obvious to everyone.

  2. #212
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    They are seen as a resistance movement to their people, seen as terrorists by those opposed to them.
    Yes... but... are they actually fighting for freedom?
    For whom? Defined how?

  3. #213
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It does make sense. Now explain that to Goobieman, he seems to be having trouble understanding.
    I understand what you're saying in its entirety, and its pretty stupid of you to assume I do not.

    What YOU seem to have trouble with is that to be a "freedom fighter" you have to be fighting for actual freedom.

  4. #214
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes... but... are they actually fighting for freedom?
    For whom? Defined how?
    No, I spotted the verbal trap in your question which is why I quoted the BBC text rather than try to explain "whose" freedom they are supposedly fighting for.

    The only real answer is one given by PeteEU ages ago and repeated again - it is a question of perspective. Hamas self proclaim as "resistance" - not "freedom." The label "freedom fighter" is not part of their vocabulary.

  5. #215
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    You missread my statemnt. I said in refering to the IRA "I had sympathy for the IRA's cause of freedom.
    Do you think the IRA only targeted civilians in the Northern Ireland troubles? That there were no civilians targeted in the campaign for Southern Irish independence?


    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    The IRA were terrorist. There goal was not the destruction of Britain and the death of all Brits. There goal was freedom for Ireland.
    They tried to achieve their goal through means that are considered terrorism. i.e. to instill fear and make a place ungovernable whether through terrorising ordinary civilians or killing members of the govt. Driving the English out or into the sea was just as much an IRA goal as Hamas driving the Israelis out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Hamas stated goal is the destruction of Israel and to drive all Israelis into the sea. They use terrorist tactics to achieve this goal. They will not settle for two nation states. Hamas uses tactics with the intent to kill civilians. They are a terrorist organization just as the IRA was a terrorist organization.
    Agreed.

  6. #216
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    No, I spotted the verbal trap in your question...
    Therer's no verbal trap in my question.
    Its completely straightforwrd, and very simple.
    The answer is as well.


    The only real answer is one given by PeteEU ages ago and repeated again - it is a question of perspective. Hamas self proclaim as "resistance" - not "freedom." The label "freedom fighter" is not part of their vocabulary.
    So you would agree that Hamas, Hizboolah, and AQ are -not- actually freedom fighters, since they do not actually fight for freedom.

  7. #217
    Matthew 16:3
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Do you think the IRA only targeted civilians in the Northern Ireland troubles? That there were no civilians targeted in the campaign for Southern Irish independence?
    I know the black and tans targetted civilians and engaged in other terror tactics during the 1920's.

    As far as the fromation of the pIRA goes, this was brought on by protestant paramilitary groups such as the UVF who engaged in terrorism and ended up in positions of authority in such groups as theUDR and RUC.



    Although, one thing must be noted above and beyond anything else. Unlike the Protestant paramilitary groups, the pIRA has apologized for all civilian casualties.


    They tried to achieve their goal through means that are considered terrorism. i.e. to instill fear and make a place ungovernable whether through terrorising ordinary civilians or killing members of the govt. Driving the English out or into the sea was just as much an IRA goal as Hamas driving the Israelis out.
    Killing members of the government, especially terrorist elements within the government (i.e. the RUC & UDF), in a fight for freedom is not terrorism.

    The only valid metric for terrorism is targetting civilians, and that alone should be the metric.

    There is no doubt that some members of the pIRA most definitely engaged in terrorism, but it was not a universal tactic employed by every member of the pIRA.

    But it must also be stated that the pIRA was not the only terrorist group in Northern Ireland, and as far as the ratio of dead civilians to combatants goes, they were far from the worst terrorist group in Northern Ireland.
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  8. #218
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    You missread my statemnt. I said in refering to the IRA "I had sympathy for the IRA's cause of freedom. But there tactic of purposefully targeting civilians was unacceptable. They were terrorist."

    The IRA were terrorist. There goal was not the destruction of Britain and the death of all Brits. There goal was freedom for Ireland.

    Hamas stated goal is the destruction of Israel and to drive all Israelis into the sea. They use terrorist tactics to achieve this goal. They will not settle for two nation states. Hamas uses tactics with the intent to kill civilians. They are a terrorist organization just as the IRA was a terrorist organization.
    The IRA blew up cars, murdered people, and hell even blew up whole streets basicly, and you call them terrorists, but yet are sympathetic for their cause of freedom from the UK... gotcha

    So let me ask you.. condemn Hamas and the way it goes about doing things, but do you support the right of the Palestinian people to live in a country of their own in the areas known as the occupied territories or not?

    But regardless of you answer, you can not deny that in the eyes of the oppressed peoples in the occupied areas, Hamas or anyone fighting back will be seen as a freedom fighter, and those that occupy the area will see them as terrorists.. yes or no?

    As for goals in revolutionary charters or documents... so you are saying because Hamas has been interpreted by westerners to want to get rid of Israel in a document written under occupation and war (and a document with a highly religious theme at that), then this organisation is "damned" forever? Does this apply for everyone or just muslims? Because if I remember right, the US revolutionary documents promoted slavery and denied rights to women..
    Last edited by PeteEU; 02-09-09 at 03:26 PM.
    PeteEU

  9. #219
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    freedom fighters using terrorist tactics
    the last part kind of moots the previous part

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  10. #220
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    But regardless of you answer, you can not deny that in the eyes of the oppressed peoples in the occupied areas, Hamas or anyone fighting back will be seen as a freedom fighter, and those that occupy the area will see them as terrorists.. yes or no?
    Being seen by someone as a 'freedom fighter' and actually fighting for freedom are not in way necessarily the same thing.

    Fightng for the power to create an oppressive theocracy isn't fighting for freedom.

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