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Thread: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Neither of them understand that the real world is not an abstract concept.
    Example?

    The fact that one can *deduce* their position on any given issue (even if one has never heard them speak about the issue at hand) should be a red flag that one is listening to an ideologue with little grasp of reality or any sense of practicality.
    Many of Ron Paul's ideas are absurdly practical, but please do enlighten me on his policies and his failure to grasp reality.
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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Example?


    Many of Ron Paul's ideas are absurdly practical, but please do enlighten me on his policies and his failure to grasp reality.
    I want to hear it as well because most of what he expresses involves the federal government only and he is totally hands off in regards to how lower governments would operate.

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Example?


    Many of Ron Paul's ideas are absurdly practical, but please do enlighten me on his policies and his failure to grasp reality.
    Both Ron Paul and Ralph Nader start with some reasonable ideas, and take them to the most extreme conclusion possible.

    For example, Ron Paul believes that American meddling in foreign affairs causes problems for the United States. That's certainly a reasonable enough argument, whether one agrees with it or not. However, his solution is to withdraw US troops from every corner of the earth, withdraw from the United Nations, spurn all alliances, and withdraw from all international agreements and trade pacts. That is NOT a reasonable solution. The world is becoming more globalized, not less, whether Ron Paul likes it or not.

    Ralph Nader starts from reasonable premises as well. For example, he thinks that there is too much wealth disparity in this country which causes poverty. That's certainly a reasonable enough argument, whether one agrees with it or not. However, his solution is to institute a maximum wage and institute layer upon layer of corporate regulation and new labor laws. Again, an unreasonable solution to a reasonable problem. Those kind of policies would destroy economic growth and create much MORE poverty, whether Ralph Nader acknowledges it or not.

    Alan Keyes doesn't even have reasonable assumptions from which his arguments begin. His arguments begin and end on frightening grounds.
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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Alan Keyes doesn't even have reasonable assumptions from which his arguments begin. His arguments begin and end on frightening grounds.
    Such as...?

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Both Ron Paul and Ralph Nader start with some reasonable ideas, and take them to the most extreme conclusion possible.

    For example, Ron Paul believes that American meddling in foreign affairs causes problems for the United States. That's certainly a reasonable enough argument, whether one agrees with it or not. However, his solution is to withdraw US troops from every corner of the earth
    Fail. He endorses a powerful Navy, and considering the amount of water in the "4 corners of the earth, what you just wrote is false.

    withdraw from the United Nations
    Damn right! the UN is a cesspool of corruption.

    spurn all alliances
    Fail. Ending entangling alliances does not mean we can not have friendly relations.

    withdraw from all international agreements and trade pacts
    He's all for free trade, not the bs managed trade we see today

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Fail. He endorses a powerful Navy, and considering the amount of water in the "4 corners of the earth, what you just wrote is false.
    This would effectively withdraw our troops from everywhere, as a navy has very little real power. This is not the 17th century, as much as Ron Paul might wish it were. Fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    Damn right! the UN is a cesspool of corruption.
    This kind of stupid impracticality is exactly what I am talking about. Would the world really be a better place if the United States was not a party to, say, the World Health Organization? That "cesspool of corruption" is an excellent forum for the world's nations to negotiate with one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    Fail. Ending entangling alliances does not mean we can not have friendly relations.
    No, but ending alliances most certainly means ending alliances. Which is what I wrote. Fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    He's all for free trade, not the bs managed trade we see today
    Again, more stupid impracticality from Ron Paul. You have to take these things one step at a time, and Congress is not about to unilaterally abolish all protectionist laws, as much as we might want them to. And even if they did, the legislatures of OTHER countries are unlikely to unilaterally follow suit. Agreements like NAFTA which reduce trade barriers are absolutely essential to free trade.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-03-09 at 01:42 PM.
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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Such as...?
    Here are a few examples of Keyes' lunacy:

    On civil rights:
    "It's about time we all faced up to the truth. If we accept the radical homosexual agenda, be it in the military or in marriage or in other areas of our lives, we are utterly destroying the concept of family." - Alan Keyes

    On learnin':
    "When we, through our educational culture, through the media, through the entertainment culture, give our children the impression that human beings cannot control their passions, we are telling them, in effect, that human beings cannot be trusted with freedom." - Alan Keyes

    On globalization:
    "I don't think the question is whether China should belong to the World Trade Organization. I believe the question is whether the United States should belong to an organization that violates every constitutional principle." - Alan Keyes

    On the virtues of hive-mindedness:
    "Our first responsibility is not to ourselves, ... Our first responsibility is to our country and to our God." - Alan Keyes

    On his new job as press secretary for God:
    "I frankly don't care if you agree with my stand on abortion. I take that stand because no other stand is consistent with decent principles, and no other standard is consistent with the will of God." - Alan Keyes

    On furriners takin' our jerrrrrbs:
    "We need to get rid of the 16th amendment, and return to the original system that funds government with a variety of tariffs and duties." - Alan Keyes

    On censorship:
    "It isn't a free speech issue; it's a matter of public decency." - Alan Keyes


    Additionally, Keyes is a conspiracy nut who was part of the ridiculous lawsuit questioning Obama's citizenship.
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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This would effectively withdraw our troops from everywhere, as a navy has very little real power.
    THAT depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is the nature of that navy and the opponent in question.

    Againast Japan, for instance, the US Navy has a LOT of power.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 02-03-09 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This would effectively withdraw our troops from everywhere, as a navy has very little real power. This is not the 17th century, as much as Ron Paul might wish it were. Fail.
    Yes, it isn't the 17th century. Our Naval Fleet can actually project a great deal of power without actually occupying foreign lands, unlike in the 17th Century. Fail


    This kind of stupid impracticality is exactly what I am talking about. Would the world really be a better place if the United States was not a party to, say, the World Health Organization? That "cesspool of corruption" is an excellent forum for the world's nations to negotiate with one another.
    This country would be a better place, which is what the primary concern is and always should be. Your beloved institutions are failing, so it is only you with your head in the sand refusing the see the lack of practicality in your ideas.

    No, but ending alliances most certainly means ending alliances. Which is what I wrote. Fail.
    Ron Paul speaks of entangling alliances, such as an attack on one is an attack on all. We do not need to end alliances, only entangling alliances. Fail.


    Again, more stupid impracticality from Ron Paul. You have to take these things one step at a time, and Congress is not about to unilaterally abolish all protectionist laws, as much as we might want them to. And even if they did, the legislatures of OTHER countries are unlikely to unilaterally follow suit. Agreements like NAFTA which reduce trade barriers are absolutely essential to free trade.
    Yes, one step at time. the best first step is to give someone that actually wants true free trade the bully pulpit that is currently giving to the morons that seek protectionism and corporate managed trade. Ron Paul would be a fantastic leap in that regard, even though he is one person and Congress holds most of the power.

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    Re: Why can't Republicans or Conservatives get behind Alan Keyes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Yes, it isn't the 17th century. Our Naval Fleet can actually project a great deal of power without actually occupying foreign lands, unlike in the 17th Century. Fail
    And how exactly would Ron Paul's navy deal with, say, the attacks on 9/11? Last I checked, Afghanistan was landlocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    This country would be a better place, which is what the primary concern is and always should be. Your beloved institutions are failing, so it is only you with your head in the sand refusing the see the lack of practicality in your ideas.
    Please explain how the United States would be a better place without the World Health Organization. What would we gain by withdrawing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    Ron Paul speaks of entangling alliances, such as an attack on one is an attack on all. We do not need to end alliances, only entangling alliances. Fail.
    And what exactly is the difference between an alliance and an entangling alliance? Alliances are, by their very nature, entangling.

    Do you wish to abandon Eastern Europe to the Russians, and Israel to the Arabs? Do you wish to abandon Mexico and Colombia to revolutionary movements? How would these things make the United States a better place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative
    Yes, one step at time. the best first step is to give someone that actually wants true free trade the bully pulpit that is currently giving to the morons that seek protectionism and corporate managed trade. Ron Paul would be a fantastic leap in that regard, even though he is one person and Congress holds most of the power.
    This is ridiculous. Having the "bully pulpit" does not bring about the desired change if you're an uncompromising demagogue who refuses to negotiate with Congress. In fact, it produces a backlash more often than not.
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