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Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  • Yes, it was.

    Votes: 18 41.9%

  • No, it wasn't.

    Votes: 25 58.1%
  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
Are Christian principles taking over other people's land and declaring it theirs? Because according to Jesus's teaching when he comes back to judge, he will especially judge how people treated the vulnerable and Native Americans were very vulnerable and the founders of the US didn't treat them very well. So based on how this nation was founded and the actual teaching of Christ, I would personally say it was not founded on the principles of Jesus Christ.
 
americanwoman said:
Are Christian principles taking over other people's land and declaring it theirs? Because according to Jesus's teaching when he comes back to judge, he will especially judge how people treated the vulnerable and Native Americans were very vulnerable and the founders of the US didn't treat them very well. So based on how this nation was founded and the actual teaching of Christ, I would personally say it was not founded on the principles of Jesus Christ.
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Is your opinion based on any evidence at all, and if so, does such evidence directly counter my sources and prove them to be inaccurate?

I just want to know if your post here is anything more than the baseless emotional swipe at Christianity it appears to be.

If it is, that's fine; I'll step aside and let you vent your anger towards whoever in your personal life is angering you so. Just please let me know either way.
 
Jerry said:
No one has argued that America was founded on exclusively Christian principals, so no. Founding principles can be shared by other people, cultures and religions across the globe and that would change nothing.

The fact that "do not murder" is not exclusively Christianity does not mean "do not murder" is not a Christian principal.

It can be a Christian principal and shared by other religions.
__________________
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What the hell are you arguing for?

It's not a Christian Nation-State it is a Religious Nation-State. If it doesn't hold exclusive Christian characteristics, then it is not an exclusive Christian state. Therefore, it is appealing to multiple religions. Therefore, it is not a Christian State but a religious one.

Finally, if it is built on principles that are transparent through different religions, then it is founded on a Universal sense of morality, which I argued a lot time ago. I never once said anything about it being a secular state. You just assumed that by me arguing that it is not founded on Christian Principles that I was arguing in favor of a secular-state.

My God.
 
Arch Enemy said:
What the hell are you arguing for?

It's not a Christian Nation-State it is a Religious Nation-State. If it doesn't hold exclusive Christian characteristics, then it is not an exclusive Christian state. Therefore, it is appealing to multiple religions. Therefore, it is not a Christian State but a religious one.

Finally, if it is built on principles that are transparent through different religions, then it is founded on a Universal sense of morality, which I argued a lot time ago. I never once said anything about it being a secular state. You just assumed that by me arguing that it is not founded on Christian Principles that I was arguing in favor of a secular-state.

My God.
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I really wish you would begin to provide evidence to support your argument.

Please quote and link to non-Christian religious contributions to any Founding document.

The fact that mankind shares a common moral core in no way negates the fact that this nation was founded on the Christian understanding of that universal moral core.
 
independent_thinker, I saw your question and interplay with Captain Courtesy becasue nobody would address your questions. Jerry just did a pretty good job of answering both of you. It is notable that neither of you could manage to address the OP or answer the question posed. Nor could either of you address a single post that has answered the OP. Not that you are alone in ignoring just about everything posted here and posing questions while offering plenty of 'thanks'. I mean for your part you have managed to offer the following scintillating contributions to the thread:

independent_thinker2002 said:
What are these principles that are exclusively Christian?
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 Questioning self:
independent_thinker2002 said:
What are these principles that are exclusively Christian?
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independent_thinker2002 said:
Good luck. No one even attempted to answer my question about exclusive Christian principles.
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independent_thinker2002 said:
:2brickwal:2brickwal
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independent_thinker2002 said:
Yet, you just responded to my post that wasn't directed at you. :roll:
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independent_thinker2002 said:
When you beat me, you gotta be fast. :2razz:
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I understand the above was as easy as lazy. But perhaps you could emulate the smiley butting its head against a wall and come up with your reason why the USA was or was not founded on Christian principals? Just too nutty an idea for ya?:idea:
 
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You know I wish God was just left out of the Constitution and our legal documents so that those who believe it is one nation under a certain God can do so, and those who believe it is not a nation under God can do so.

If there is no mention of the Christian God, then Christians can take it as a given and non-Christians can take it literally. Works evenly for everybody.
 
disneydude said:
What....you think that you speak for him? I think that if the issues were important to Jesus Christ he would have spoken about them.
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I don't think Jesus lived in the time where cared about embryonic stem cell research and nuclear warfare.....
 
Cilogy said:
You know I wish God was just left out of the Constitution and our legal documents so that those who believe it is one nation under a certain God can do so, and those who believe it is not a nation under God can do so.

If there is no mention of the Christian God, then Christians can take it as a given and non-Christians can take it literally. Works evenly for everybody.
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When modern people look at the Founding Fathers and see a group of white people, they claim racism; when they note that everyone present is a man, they cry sexism; when it becomes known that they were all Christian, they plead relgious intolerance and oppression.

An educated observer looks at the Founding Fathers and sees a group of people who cling together for survival, not to dissimilar to siding up in a prison gang for the same reason.

Ever wonder why prison gangs are always race based? I'll give you a clue: It has nothing to do with racial hatred or racial pride, yet is the same reason why all of our Founding Fathers are 1. White, 2. Men and 3. Christian.

Master Status.

Learn about that and get back to us.
 
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Jerry said:
When modern people look at the Founding Fathers and see a group of white people, they claim racism; when they note that everyone present is a man, they cry sexism; when it becomes known that they were all Christian, they plead relgious intolerance and oppression.

An educated observer looks at the Founding Fathers and sees a group of people who cling together for survival, not to dissimilar to siding up in a prison gang for the same reason.

Ever wonder why prison gangs are always race based? I'll give you a clue: It has nothing to do with racial hatred or racial pride, yet is the same reason why all of our Founding Fathers are 1. White, 2. Men and 3. Christian.

Master Status.

Learn about that and get back to us.
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I refuse to believe that, I still think our founding fathers did not create our nation based on Christian principles. They are principles that are purely democratic, universal, and fair.

But you ask, universal? What about non-religion?

Now, I do believe they did found our country based on religious principles, as the nation is "under God," but not a specific God. I suppose it is that way because atheism was not as big then as it is now.
 
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churchsignRETARD.jpg
 
Cilogy said:
I refuse to believe that, I still think our founding fathers did not create our nation based on Christian principles. They are principles that are purely democratic, universal, and fair.
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As long as we're clear that that's only your personal belief, I take no issue with your contribution here because I don't take issue with beliefs.

Cilogy said:
But you ask, universal? What about non-religion?
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Every time an atheist says 'it's wrong to murder' they are evidencing the universality the moral core every healthy human shares.....and the truth of scripture, ironicly.

Cilogy said:
Now, I do believe they did found our country based on religious principles, as the nation is "under God," but not a specific God. I suppose it is that way because atheism was not as big then as it is now.
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What can I say to that?

If my previous sources have no voice with you, then I have no reason to assume that additional sources could convince you either.
 
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Since our nation was founded under the heavy influence of Masonic tenents, I have to think that no particular diety was ever intended to be endorsed.
 
Jerry said:
Every time an atheist says 'it's wrong to murder' they are evidencing the universality the moral core every healthy human shares.....and the truth of scripture, ironicly.
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Just because dogma occasionally coincides with morality on some of the most obvious cases does not mean that the dogma is moral, or true, in its entirety.
 
Hell No! Most of our founding fathers were Diest and wanted freedom of and from religion..
 
Jerry said:
One of the benefits of being Conservative is the inherent ability to correctly and accurately brake down a seemingly Complex Question into its component parts and arriving at objectively true observations and conclusions about the topic at hand :cool: This is how I was able to answer the OP with a single line without the need of drawing out nuances and micro-analysis.
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This ability seems absent in most conservatives. Perhaps you are not what you claim. :2razz:


founded - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary


A very important point to note here is that the most common use of the term "founded upon" does not require the Constitution to exist yet. Indeed, founding 13 colonies and their respective Agents of Socialization pre-date the Constitution, including the Marine Corps, therefore IMO to insist that the nation as a people began with the Constitution's ratification is pure folly and I cannot see any legitimacy or authority is such arguments.
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You still didn't answer the question. If "founded on" means "established", please explain how this relates, contextually, to the question in the OP. Does it mean that the US was based on Christian principles? Does it mean that the US was established because of Christian principles? Does it mean that the US is equated to Christian principles? The question is pretty complex.


Natural Law
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This is clear an is both what I thought, and answers my question. Thank you.


Specifically:
  • Episcopalian/Anglican
  • Presbyterian
  • Congregationalist
  • Quaker
  • Dutch Reformed/German Reformed
  • Lutheran
  • Catholic
  • Huguenot
  • Unitarian
  • Methodist
  • Calvinist
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There are a wide range of beliefs inside the core of Christianity when looking at this list. Your answer is a little vague. Can you be a little more specific?


No one has argued that America was founded on exclusively Christian principals, so no. Founding principles can be shared by other people, cultures and religions across the globe and that would change nothing.

The fact that "do not murder" is not exclusively Christianity does not mean "do not murder" is not a Christian principal.

It can be a Christian principal and shared by other religions.
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That is clear. Thank you.
 
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion–as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] … "(Article 11, ‘Treaty of Peace and Friendship between The United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary,’ 1796-1797)

Hey that wouldn't make a bad line for Obama either.
 
There is nothing vague about the OP, the USA was either founded upon Christian or secular principals. Yes the OP does include room for “dancing” which you and IT both participated in, while ignoring every single post in the thread that did address the OP. Do you need me to hook you up with perma links to the post in the thread from me Jerry and others that did address it? The ones you and IT both managed to ignore?

I wonder, can you address the OP yourself Captain? Or are you and IT2002, instead content to sit back and merely cheery pick through the thread? While you ‘spot ignore’ the comments of those of us who have managed to address the OP and topic? I challenged IT to do the same and **poof** he vanished. Frankly I don’t care how many excuses you can make for ignoring the OP and topic to “question” those of us who could both grasp the question put forth by the OP and answer it.

I know when I challenged IT to stop trolling the thread he simply **poof** up and vacated the thread.

How lazy and easy is it for you to just pop in and pretend as if you don’t understand what is meant by the OP question? It is too vague for you you say? It is really very simple, if the USA was not founded upon Christian principals it must have been secular ones eh? Maybe you could muster up the effort to address the topic and thread, rather than trolling those of us who could do so?

Do you have a “take” on this topic Captain? Or is posing “questions” to those who have one, your idea of an opinion here? How much wiggle room do you need to build into your answer to the thread/topic before you bravely answer it? Or do you really need Jerry to answer some more questions for you before you can boldly brave the tepid waters of the thread? Are they warm enough for you yet Captain? Because despite the fact that your questions have been largely answered (even before Jerry replied) all you seem to be able to do is claim it is all to vague for you, you need to pose some more questions of those who have been able to address the topic, despite the so called vague nature of it? :confused:
 
Joby said:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion–as it has itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] … "(Article 11, ‘Treaty of Peace and Friendship between The United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary,’ 1796-1797)

Hey that wouldn't make a bad line for Obama either.
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A politician wrote that; you don't actually believe that **** do you? :lol:
 
What are the exclusive Christian principles?

Jerry offered up common principles. That would make it just as valid to say this country was founded on Buddhist principles or some other religion. Even secularists have values and principles.

I also notice that no one has addressed Tucker's points about the Greeks and Romans.

Do you know what the First Commandment is?
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
What are the exclusive Christian principles?

Jerry offered up common principles. That would make it just as valid to say this country was founded on Buddhist principles or some other religion. Even secularists have values and principles.

I also notice that no one has addressed Tucker's points about the Greeks and Romans.

Do you know what the First Commandment is?
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Who says they have to be exclusive? Christians came here and established this country, what other principles would they use? Are you feeling okay?
 
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