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Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  • Yes, it was.

    Votes: 18 41.9%

  • No, it wasn't.

    Votes: 25 58.1%
  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
CaptainCourtesy said:
And...you are wrong. To me, the OP question was vague. It is not for you to tell me that it is not. Your understanding of the context of the question is different from mine. Your opinion on the vagueness of the OP, in the context of my perception is irrelevant. Too often I have seen vague OP's either be used as a way to direct a discussion in a slanted way, or to create misinterpretation because of the lack of clarity. I like to be aware of what I am responding to, before I respond. And the fact that there are several here that wanted clarification is more evidence that you are wrong. Jerry has sufficiently answered my questions and clarified things so I can respond appropriately. That's all I needed. I wonder what the agenda surrounding your attacks is.
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Well quite a few people were able to immediately see the question and discern that it seemed to be about were the principals secular or Christian. But as you say it could all be down to personal interpretation. Though I note after asking your questions, you have arrived at the same answer that I and others started providing, on the first page of the thread. I guess some of us are just quicker than others.
CaptainCourtesy said:
It is not trolling to request clarification. It may be trolling, however, to attack those who request it.
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 Oh touché! My agenda is really pretty simple though. There are some posters here at DP who routinely pop into threads and rather than engage in a discussion or the topic of the thread, do all sorts of other things. They “ask” questions and make jokes but very little else. Sometimes when you look through a thread, you notice that aside from one liners and “questions” these same posters never manage to actually do anything aside from that. Ask “questions” and joke, thread after thread.

 There is a word for that and it is called lazy. I also find troll is commonly attached to this behavior as well. Nes pa? So if one wants to see a perfect example of lazy they need only look through this thread. Notice how even at this late point in the thread some here still can’t manage to do more than imitate a Romper Room doo-bee. Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? What is chlorophyll? Jesus……………..all puns intended.

 By the way IT, what ever else you do don’t dare address the OP or bravely explain your answer to the question. This sitting on the sidelines aint all that impressive, but it is transparently easy. You got a frakin opinion on the topic here at a opinion debate website? Then why not put on a cup and come on out on the playing field?

Anyone else need me to clarify not so secret agenda here? :roll:
 
Sir Loin said:

Well quite a few people were able to immediately see the question and discern that it seemed to be about were the principals secular or Christian. But as you say it could all be down to personal interpretation. Though I note after asking your questions, you have arrived at the same answer that I and others started providing, on the first page of the thread. I guess some of us are just quicker than others.

Oh touché! My agenda is really pretty simple though. There are some posters here at DP who routinely pop into threads and rather than engage in a discussion or the topic of the thread, do all sorts of other things. They “ask” questions and make jokes but very little else. Sometimes when you look through a thread, you notice that aside from one liners and “questions” these same posters never manage to actually do anything aside from that. Ask “questions” and joke, thread after thread.

 There is a word for that and it is called lazy. I also find troll is commonly attached to this behavior as well. Nes pa? So if one wants to see a perfect example of lazy they need only look through this thread. Notice how even at this late point in the thread some here still can’t manage to do more than imitate a Romper Room doo-bee. Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? What is chlorophyll? Jesus……………..all puns intended.

 By the way IT, what ever else you do don’t dare address the OP or bravely explain your answer to the question. This sitting on the sidelines aint all that impressive, but it is transparently easy. You got a frakin opinion on the topic here at a opinion debate website? Then why not put on a cup and come on out on the playing field?

Anyone else need me to clarify not so secret agenda here? :roll:
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I know exactly what you're talking about and I share your frustration.

Those actions are trolling. However, those actions are not moderatable. They fall within the lighter side of the gray aria between pure debate and pure flame.

The best and possibly only way to deal with such tolling is to ignore it and/or return the trolling in kind. Counter a question by questioning the question. Counter an irrelevant and distracting joke with random humor not related to anything at all.

Since the trolling was not hostile, addressing it with hostility will only earn YOU points.

In short, you're right, and there's nothing any mod can ever do about it so you're on your own.
 
I am still not entirely sure what trolling is.

I left the world of the internets for a few years and this new term appears.

I don't think it was used here at DP in the early-era
 
Jerry said:
I know exactly what you're talking about and I share your frustration.

Those actions are trolling. However, those actions are not moderatable. They fall within the lighter side of the gray aria between pure debate and pure flame.

The best and possibly only way to deal with such tolling is to ignore it and/or return the trolling in kind. Counter a question by questioning the question. Counter an irrelevant and distracting joke with random humor not related to anything at all.

Since the trolling was not hostile, addressing it with hostility will only earn YOU points.

In short, you're right, and there's nothing any mod can ever do about it so you're on your own.
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 Well this is not my first rodeo and I have put in plenty of MOD time. The MODs here might not do anything about it but I’ve seen plenty of boards that is not the case at. I frequent one now, where if you have a trolling pattern you get to correct it or go bye bye. And there is something we can all do about it, call it out when we see it. Sometimes you see the pattern and make it a DM and try to channel the trollery to the appropriate place in the forum too, I guess. Clearly that did not work, so I’ll just call a troll a troll.:cool:
 
Sir Loin said:
Well this is not my first rodeo and I have put in plenty of MOD time. The MODs here might not do anything about it but I’ve seen plenty of boards that is not the case at. I frequent one now, where if you have a trolling pattern you get to correct it or go bye bye. And there is something we can all do about it, call it out when we see it. Sometimes you see the pattern and make it a DM and try to channel the trollery to the appropriate place in the forum too, I guess. Clearly that did not work, so I’ll just call a troll a troll.:cool:
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When you call out a troll, you give them what they want and further sew seeds of division amongst members on this board. How about we try not to let an internet website get the best of us? Seems logical to me.
 
Sir Loin said:
Well this is not my first rodeo and I have put in plenty of MOD time. The MODs here might not do anything about it but I’ve seen plenty of boards that is not the case at. I frequent one now, where if you have a trolling pattern you get to correct it or go bye bye. And there is something we can all do about it, call it out when we see it. Sometimes you see the pattern and make it a DM and try to channel the trollery to the appropriate place in the forum too, I guess. Clearly that did not work, so I’ll just call a troll a troll.:cool:
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I am not new to people blowing a gasket when I ask questions that make people uncomfortable. I asked that question that was pertinent to the topic. No one answered. Then I creatively "bumped" my question. I don't think we were founded on Christian principles. Our founders may have been Christian. But I don't see the major principles that I think we were founded on coming from religion. Democracy wasn't. Taxation without representation wasn't. Freedom from governmental religious persecution may be debateable. Basically the only answer I saw was that since the FF were Christian, their ideas were Christian principles. Did I miss a specific principle?
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
I am not new to people blowing a gasket when I ask questions that make people uncomfortable. I asked that question that was pertinent to the topic. No one answered. Then I creatively "bumped" my question. I don't think we were founded on Christian principles. Our founders may have been Christian. But I don't see the major principles that I think we were founded on coming from religion. Democracy wasn't. Taxation without representation wasn't. Freedom from governmental religious persecution may be debateable. Basically the only answer I saw was that since the FF were Christian, their ideas were Christian principles. Did I miss a specific principle?
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How about man having a creator and all men being equal. That is a Christian principle.
 
walleye said:
How about man having a creator and all men being equal. That is a Christian principle.
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They may have believed that man has a creator, but that IMO has nothing to do with our country's foundation.

They certainly didn't believe that all men were created equally. They did say that. Actions speak louder than words though.

Thanks for the specific principle though. I do appreciate that.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And to some extent, you're probably correct. One of the reasons that, in historical context, when founded, the US was such a forward-thinking anomaly.
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One could say that the US was actually a "backward-thinking" anomaly, because the principles upon which the US was founded predate Jesus.
 
Our forefathers were religious. (I'm guessing they were religious Christians..)
No doubt they placed at lease a little of their beliefs in their works.

BUT was it only founded on Christian principles? No.

In fact, Thomas Jefferson, who put much of his ideas into our works, was as anti-religious as they get in those days.
 
JoeMama said:
Our forefathers were religious. (I'm guessing they were religious Christians..)
No doubt they placed at lease a little of their beliefs in their works.

BUT was it only founded on Christian principles? No.

In fact, Thomas Jefferson, who put much of his ideas into our works, was as anti-religious as they get in those days.
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From my earlier link:
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian
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Sir Loin said:

Well quite a few people were able to immediately see the question and discern that it seemed to be about were the principals secular or Christian. But as you say it could all be down to personal interpretation. Though I note after asking your questions, you have arrived at the same answer that I and others started providing, on the first page of the thread. I guess some of us are just quicker than others.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps some of us are more inquisitive and look for deeper meanings than others. It's all a matter of persepctive

Oh touché! My agenda is really pretty simple though. There are some posters here at DP who routinely pop into threads and rather than engage in a discussion or the topic of the thread, do all sorts of other things. They “ask” questions and make jokes but very little else. Sometimes when you look through a thread, you notice that aside from one liners and “questions” these same posters never manage to actually do anything aside from that. Ask “questions” and joke, thread after thread.
Click to expand...
There is a word for that and it is called lazy. I also find troll is commonly attached to this behavior as well. Nes pa? So if one wants to see a perfect example of lazy they need only look through this thread. Notice how even at this late point in the thread some here still can’t manage to do more than imitate a Romper Room doo-bee. Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? What is chlorophyll? Jesus……………..all puns intended.

 By the way IT, what ever else you do don’t dare address the OP or bravely explain your answer to the question. This sitting on the sidelines aint all that impressive, but it is transparently easy. You got a frakin opinion on the topic here at a opinion debate website? Then why not put on a cup and come on out on the playing field?

Anyone else need me to clarify not so secret agenda here? :roll:
Click to expand...
Moderator's Warning:
What you need to do is cease this behavior in this and in your other post. You know it doesn't fly. Everyone get to and stay on topic.
 
The FF's founded the constitution for the society that existed at the time and which they took for granted not for a vacuum. This was a Christian society and the one for which the constitution was made.
 
Arch Enemy said:
Bring it on buddy. The United States of America is defined as a country. And please, look through here (define: United States of America - Google Search) and tell me a definition that does call it a nation.
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So, what you are saying is they have to change the wording in the pledge of alligence to say "I pledge allegience, to the flag, of the United States of America, one country, under God, indivisible....yada, yada yada..."

Good luck with that. :rofl
 
disneydude said:
No....I take him at his WORD.
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disneydude said:
What....you think that you speak for him?
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No...I take him at his WORD:
Matthew 5:17-16;
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
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I don't see what we disagree on :2wave:
 
Being as the FF's were for the most part Christian even if they weren't saints they did base the Constitution on their beliefs, which was Christian for the most part. They however took it a bit farther and made it to where the laws could accomodate everyones beliefs and not just their own. So while the US may have been founded by Christians it was not necessarily made FOR Christians only.

I picked yes in the poll however I think that there should have been another option. Both.
 
Arch Enemy said:
It was founded on principles that were around way before the Bible.
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No; the Bible (Old Testament, anyway) is one of the oldest documents in the world, going back at least 3000 years. That's before Greek society flourished. That's before Roman society flourished. There are no principles upon which the country was founded which predates it.

Besides, it was founded on the principles of the Anglo-Scottish Enlightenment, which at the time was only 100-150 years old.
 
Harshaw said:
No; the Bible (Old Testament, anyway) is one of the oldest documents in the world, going back at least 3000 years. That's before Greek society flourished. That's before Roman society flourished. There are no principles upon which the country was founded which predates it.
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Really? Did you sleep through World History in high school?

Code of Hammurabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
EgoffTib said:
Really? Did you sleep through World History in high school?

Code of Hammurabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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What about it? There's very little in the foundational philosophical principles of this country to be found in the Code of Hammurabi; just because it's one of the oldest known written laws doesn't mean our law was modeled after it other than in the most simple sense that it codified law. It's not a blueprint for an early form of democracy or republic.

And besides, the Founders had no idea it even existed.
 
*sigh* who can even answer the question? Anyone?

Look, Christian principals played a role, and a fair role. I mean, cmon, THIS WAS THEIR CULTURE! There are at least going to be ALLUSIONS to christianity. Not because there is meant to be, or even that the founding fathers WANTED there to be, it's just part of their culture.

Now, with that out of the way. Before we can answer the question, we have to address an important factor, the times were much, much, different. What do I mean by this? Well, in today's world, we split religions into certain politics. If you are a christian, you are against abortion, and likely gay marriage. If you are not a christian or religious at all, you are likely for abortion and gay marriage (There are, of course, exceptions to these 2 statements but, this simply the general rule).

Back in that time though, it wasn't like that. Back then, you may have been liberal, you may have been conservative, but you were always a christian. Back then, politics wasn't split on religious grounds. People who were for the constitution were christians, and the people who were against it were also christians. That was just the culture at the time.
 
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