View Poll Results: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

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  • Yes, it was.

    34 45.95%
  • No, it wasn't.

    40 54.05%
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Thread: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  1. #71
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Our system/structure of governance is is based of the Roman system
    You posted this while I was typing.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  2. #72
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You posted this while I was typing.
    Ya gotta be fast to beat me

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Ya gotta be fast to beat me
    When you beat me, you gotta be fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  4. #74
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    No, it was founded on the Constitution. The Founding Fathers of this country signed the Constitution, not the Bible.
    No, it was founded on the Declaration of Independence.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is a complex question and one far too vague to be answered without some clarifying questions of my own:
    One of the benefits of being Conservative is the inherent ability to correctly and accurately brake down a seemingly Complex Question into its component parts and arriving at objectively true observations and conclusions about the topic at hand This is how I was able to answer the OP with a single line without the need of drawing out nuances and micro-analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    1) What do you mean "founded on"?
    founded - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    Main Entry: found
    Function: transitive verb
    Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French funder, fonder, from Latin fundare, from fundus bottom more at bottom
    Date:13th century

    1 : to take the first steps in building
    2 : to set or ground on something solid : base
    3 : to establish (as an institution) often with provision for future maintenance
    A very important point to note here is that the most common use of the term "founded upon" does not require the Constitution to exist yet. Indeed, founding 13 colonies and their respective Agents of Socialization pre-date the Constitution, including the Marine Corps, therefore IMO to insist that the nation as a people began with the Constitution's ratification is pure folly and I cannot see any legitimacy or authority is such arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    2) What principles are we talking about?
    Natural Law
    n. 1) standards of conduct derived from traditional moral principles (first mentioned by Roman jurists in the first century A.D.) and/or God's law and will. The biblical ten commandments, such as "thou shall not kill," are often included in those principles. Natural law assumes that all people believe in the same Judeo-Christian God and thus share an understanding of natural law premises.

    2) the body of laws derived from nature and reason, embodied in the Declaration of Independence assertion that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    3) the opposite of "positive law," which is created by mankind through the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    3) What type of Christianity are we discussing?
    Specifically:
    • Episcopalian/Anglican
    • Presbyterian
    • Congregationalist
    • Quaker
    • Dutch Reformed/German Reformed
    • Lutheran
    • Catholic
    • Huguenot
    • Unitarian
    • Methodist
    • Calvinist


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    4) Do you mean exclusively Christian principles?
    No one has argued that America was founded on exclusively Christian principals, so no. Founding principles can be shared by other people, cultures and religions across the globe and that would change nothing.

    The fact that "do not murder" is not exclusively Christianity does not mean "do not murder" is not a Christian principal.

    It can be a Christian principal and shared by other religions.

  6. #76
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Are Christian principles taking over other people's land and declaring it theirs? Because according to Jesus's teaching when he comes back to judge, he will especially judge how people treated the vulnerable and Native Americans were very vulnerable and the founders of the US didn't treat them very well. So based on how this nation was founded and the actual teaching of Christ, I would personally say it was not founded on the principles of Jesus Christ.
    Is what you're living for today, worth dying for tomorrow?
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Are Christian principles taking over other people's land and declaring it theirs? Because according to Jesus's teaching when he comes back to judge, he will especially judge how people treated the vulnerable and Native Americans were very vulnerable and the founders of the US didn't treat them very well. So based on how this nation was founded and the actual teaching of Christ, I would personally say it was not founded on the principles of Jesus Christ.
    Is your opinion based on any evidence at all, and if so, does such evidence directly counter my sources and prove them to be inaccurate?

    I just want to know if your post here is anything more than the baseless emotional swipe at Christianity it appears to be.

    If it is, that's fine; I'll step aside and let you vent your anger towards whoever in your personal life is angering you so. Just please let me know either way.

  8. #78
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    No one has argued that America was founded on exclusively Christian principals, so no. Founding principles can be shared by other people, cultures and religions across the globe and that would change nothing.

    The fact that "do not murder" is not exclusively Christianity does not mean "do not murder" is not a Christian principal.

    It can be a Christian principal and shared by other religions.
    __________________
    What the hell are you arguing for?

    It's not a Christian Nation-State it is a Religious Nation-State. If it doesn't hold exclusive Christian characteristics, then it is not an exclusive Christian state. Therefore, it is appealing to multiple religions. Therefore, it is not a Christian State but a religious one.

    Finally, if it is built on principles that are transparent through different religions, then it is founded on a Universal sense of morality, which I argued a lot time ago. I never once said anything about it being a secular state. You just assumed that by me arguing that it is not founded on Christian Principles that I was arguing in favor of a secular-state.

    My God.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    What the hell are you arguing for?

    It's not a Christian Nation-State it is a Religious Nation-State. If it doesn't hold exclusive Christian characteristics, then it is not an exclusive Christian state. Therefore, it is appealing to multiple religions. Therefore, it is not a Christian State but a religious one.

    Finally, if it is built on principles that are transparent through different religions, then it is founded on a Universal sense of morality, which I argued a lot time ago. I never once said anything about it being a secular state. You just assumed that by me arguing that it is not founded on Christian Principles that I was arguing in favor of a secular-state.

    My God.
    I really wish you would begin to provide evidence to support your argument.

    Please quote and link to non-Christian religious contributions to any Founding document.

    The fact that mankind shares a common moral core in no way negates the fact that this nation was founded on the Christian understanding of that universal moral core.

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    independent_thinker, I saw your question and interplay with Captain Courtesy becasue nobody would address your questions. Jerry just did a pretty good job of answering both of you. It is notable that neither of you could manage to address the OP or answer the question posed. Nor could either of you address a single post that has answered the OP. Not that you are alone in ignoring just about everything posted here and posing questions while offering plenty of 'thanks'. I mean for your part you have managed to offer the following scintillating contributions to the thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    What are these principles that are exclusively Christian?

    Questioning self:
    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    What are these principles that are exclusively Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Good luck. No one even attempted to answer my question about exclusive Christian principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Yet, you just responded to my post that wasn't directed at you.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    When you beat me, you gotta be fast.


    I understand the above was as easy as lazy. But perhaps you could emulate the smiley butting its head against a wall and come up with your reason why the USA was or was not founded on Christian principals? Just too nutty an idea for ya?
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 01-30-09 at 07:53 PM.

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